Cricketman

get together with the neighbours and anyone else who will join you, and loby the council, then lobby your local mp, then lobby the council advisors. keep the preessure on, get organised, they hate it when you get organised! they will have to have some sort of notification and a resource consent process would surely be coming through before they can do anything! find special interest groups in your area, even greenpeace or forest and bird, write to them and tell them what is happening and why the area is important to you. local iwi even can help in regard to building a case of historical and natural importance. Do some study on what is in the area, focusing on native fauna and flora, birds, fish, etc, and put that in your document. petition the local area using this information! Get a local colledge or polyteh student to do some research for you too. there are many avenues that you can take to protect your swamp. find a pohutakawa or other protected tree amoungst it and your set! lol the fight has just begun!

i ran through a glass door and had both my arms in bandags so i couldnt move... THAT was interesting... i know what your feeling dude. good luck with the surgeries etc if you need them bro! least youll have some cool scars

thing is barry, if you see a shark, its cos they WANT you to see them... they have such great senses that they detect you way off! long before you even know they are there. if they were going to take a chunk out of you, they would do it before you knew it! therefore, you never see the one that gets you! so if you cant see it, why worry about it! lol must have been an awesome experience! im pretty jelous myself...

you dont NEEd to smack your kids to bring them up right. but a smack is a severe and instant consequence. again look at my example of the kid and the dog. how, without a smack would you tell that kid to not pull the dogs tail, your dealing with a 3 year old whos favourite words are " no mum!" and "shut up mum" , and everytime you remove him from the dog he somehow manages to go straight back to what he was doing. you cant tell me that you can have a civilised and structured conversation with the child about the possible repocussions of his actions. a) he wont understand, and B) hes learnt that even if you tell him that hes a naughty boy and send him to his room that it means jack squat in the long run and mummy and daddy are soft to get around. i know for me, after i had got a smack, the mere saying " stop it or ill give you a smack" was enough to detice me from whatever i was doing. some children wont listen to anything else, time out, stand in the corner, no ice cream for dessert, child thinks " pfft, thats nothing, im going to carry on anyway" crossing a busy street, you say "dont cross" the kid carries on cos hes learnt that what you say doesnt apply to him cos he is the king of his own world and has got his parents right where he wants them, then smash, gets run over or something. the type of child that i explain here is a few in a dozen, many children will listen to thier parents, and thats all good and well, but there will always be one rebelious little tyke that will push boundaries and, if not immediately given a consequence (ie. not "time out when we get home" or " no pudding tonight" or whatever soft punshment that you wish to deal out verbally with no solid backing) will learn that he can get away with murder, until he ends up seriously in trouble from not listening. imediate rammification is necesarry, not in 5 mins, not tonight, but right there on the spot in the moment or even in the act! guarenteed they will not want to do it again. im seriously happy for people that dont have to smack thier kids, its great, but to think that just because you dont have to, no-one else should be allowed to parent thier way, is a gross egotistical statement. like alan said, who are you to hit your neighbor? well who are you to tell your neighbor how to raise thier children? they are not yours, they are not the governments, no-one knows what little monsters they are behind closed doors. to pass a judgement on parents everywhere and to say that you are better parents or that they are poorer parents is egotistical, elitist, narcistic, and rediculous to belive that you can do a better job. the law violates the privacy of family. no child has died from a smack on the ass. there still needs to be a line designated between a smack oin teh ass and beating. there is a difference between p[arental control, and someone cracking and beating the snot out of a kid. the latter will not be stopped whether you make it illegal or not... maybe because there is no immediate repurcussion.... :roll:

i agree with parts of what you say twinkles, indeed i think that there needs to be a line at what a smack is too. as i said, a open hand to the glutes is a smack and anything beyond this is a beating. again, a smack is a last resort. not a first in my view, it can be a useful tool in the toolbox of parents, as a last resort... kinda like a sledgehammer or tnt... lol making it illegal wont stop it. some kids go ape in public, cos they know they wont get into trouble, all they get is a dont do that or ill put you in the car, which never happens..... ive seen this in the supermarket where i work. again LAST resort. i dont condone the senseless beating of children.

in the words of the great Van West.... "Choice..!" Congrats 8)

it is one of those things Alan, i can see your POV, even though i dont agree with all of it. agree the most vocal people are probably using bible bashing verses to thier own end, and any quote can be mislead and used to any means when taken out of the contyext it was written. but again, look at the Maori activists. Most Maori i know and have talked to, including very well versed in the legal sector and education, are fairly happy, and alot dont agree with the so called Maori activists. just because they are the loudest does not mean that they neccesarilly carry all of their peoples views. same goes with the "Born agains". just because they are louder, doesnt mean that all who agree with part of thier philosophies are "born agains" themselves. i think the Agree to Disagree is a valid statement, and i truely value what you have to say. and thanks for sharing your ideas, its been very enlightening subject indeed! hope all goes well for you and your family. Chris

the windows are my favourite place to be! not my fault if your looking in my windows! think of it as a type of home security :lol:

thaks Caryl, it certainly is an interesting subject at least. also your experience upholds what ive been saying, some kids need firm and strong boundaries, and some kids will do what they are told first time, everytime. shades of grey, not black and white, wrong and right, legal and illegal, at the end of the day, some people will always smack thier kids, no matter what the law says, and some people will never smack thier kids because they wont have to. some people should smack thier kids, or should of a long time ago, but dont/didnt, and therefore have tearaways that have no respect for anything, least of all thier parents. and some parents smack thier kids when they dont need to. this cross section of society is as varied as society in itself, and thier is no "silver bullet". the government attempting to medle in the lives of everyday people is exactly that, meddling. Whats next? are they going to tell me i cant wear my boxers around the house? that all my fish tanks must be less than 20 litres? that i cant paint my car in flourescent hues of pink and purple? that i must frog-march everywhere i go? its just not going to happen... but judging by the way they see fit to try pry into our families already, whats to stop them from saying anything that they want? imposing anything that they want. more and more our "democracy" is sounding like a dictatorship. once again, thanks to the mods for allowing this thread to run. please try keep it clean so that we can continue this discussion people, it is very interesting. and i hope i havent offended anyone myself. 8) Chris

like i said, there is no 1 strategy, thats great Jude, you must be really stoked with them. they must have been great kids. i also agree withthe principles that you outline. but surfice to say that not all kids are like that. some kids have no respect for thier parents at all. im not condoning that parents should smack, beat and torture thier kids everyday for the smallest offence, BUT! as part of a parental package, a smack can be a useful tool. its not a justification of hitting, its a justification of a parents right to discipline thier child in the way that they see fit. smacking should be rare, but when there is nothing else for it, it should not be a criminal offence! a more poignant law would be to make every parent in NZ have to go to a parenting course before thier kids are born, so that they can learn different parenting strategies. surfice to say and im sure most would agree, some people should just NEVER have kids... society needs a breeding programme... :lol:

I resent the connotation that smacking and christianity (or any religion for that matter) go hand in hand. it is not the case at all, saying all parents that smack thier children are christian, cathoilic, muslim or any other religion or sect of society you wish to place on it is a gross hyperbol, and ultimately rubbish. any person, anywhere in the world can, and ultimately most will, deal a smack to a disobediant child. the line is drawn whereby it is more than a smack on the glutes with a open hand. that is the definition of a "smack" anything over and above this is a beating. whereby bruises and or welts, bleeding etc is a beating. i have been beaten with a graphite golf stick, bamboo, a shambok (used for herding cattle), a horsewhip, and more.... i would still not call it a beating... and at the time, i admit i probably deserved it. in fact i respect my parents more now for the fact that they kept me in line all my life up until i left home. At the time i resented them for it, but looking back i understand why it was neccesary. you dont smack your neighbor, not because its illegal, but for the fact that they ultimately are a) hopefully, adult b) not your place to discipline c) if they are all of the above, why do you care? d) most people would hope that by the time that they are old enough to understand and told what they are doing is wrong, you wouldnt need to do anything more than talk to them. e) if it is your neighbors kids, tell thier parents, and let the parents do the parenting and hand out the punishment. children NEED discipline. i have seen so many monsters that walk all over thier parents. you cant "talk " to some kids. "mommy said please stop pulling the dogs tail" *kid carries on* "now johnny, hes going to get angry with you if you keep doing that..." *kid carries on* " johnny, ive told you twice now, if you carry on ill send you to your room when we get home" *no immediate repurcussion, so kid carries on* *dog lashes out and bites kid* dog gets a beating undoubtably, and maybe put down, when all of this would have been resolved with a smack on the arse and a "I told you not to!" this is exactly what happened and i witnessed it. some kids learn to walk all over thier parents. again i say, if your kid listens to your spoken word, then fine, that works for you, great... some kids wont listen and need IMMEDIATE repercussion for disobedience, for thier own good sometimes. smacking is a last resort, not a first. saying that you shouldnt smack your kids, IMO, is puttingthem at risk further down the track. if you smack your child or grab hold of them as they try to cross a busy street and injure them, is it not better than the kid getting run over? hyberbole? yes, but the point sticks.

there is a difference between a smack on the bottom that says " listen to me, i am your parent, and whilst you are still young, i am going to have some control and respect from you, and if you step out of line there shall be consequence..." and "hitting" as alanmin puts it. again, i was smacked as a child, and it has done nothing but make me a more respectful and valuable member to society today. whereas my brother, who went without alot of smacks, has no respect for anyone, least of all my parents. (to the point that he blatantly hacked into my 76 yo grandfathers pension and stole money.) now not saying that smacking would cure this behaviour, far from it, its too late now. but, a smack on the glutes a few years back might have reighned his head in abit more. the number of times i have watched children bully and wry thier way around thier parents in the supermarket i work because they know they wont get a smack is rediculous, when a tap on the glutes would solve the problem immediately. immediate rammification of a foul/disrespectful action is needed. "time outs", talking calmly etc simply wont work in some cases, as the child learns that all s/he gets is a talking to and no real consequence to his actions. meaning that s/he can walk all over his parents if s/he feels like it.

its not sensitive really. an elightened discusion ona political outcome of overwhelming stature in the face of a brazen law is just as valid as any discussion. (my opinion) its not politics as such, more a discussion in law. there are 2 sides. but thats what makes a discussion...

a smack should definately be a last resort, not a first, but some kids it is the only thing that they will listen to! i was well smacked when i was a kid, my brother grew up without it. im now finishing my bachelor, and my brother will be lucky to make it to the end of year 11... just bercause he lacks the guidance that sometimes only a hand can give. diff kids respond to different things, if your kids listen to your spoken word then thats great, but i know that i would not be where i am today without being put in my place a few times.... making smacking illegal is rediculous. a smack and a beating are 2 diff things. what this horrendous miscarriage of legislation has done is put them together in the same boat.

i would love the experience! over 150 dives, many of them in clear waters meant to be teeming with sharks, and i have only ever seen a baby carpet shark. ive seen more sharks fishing actually come to think of it... :-? the one time i thought i saw a huge shark (thought bronzie or thresher) ie. huge 3x my size torpedo shape cruising throught e channel i was diving to the side of... turned out to be a huge kingie... estimate 300kg +++ " OMG OMG OMG OMG.... wait... :roll: its only a kingie... its a KINGIE! " lmao

it was a stupid law that was rushed through parliment in a fit of contrived elitist and moral-high-horsing. and in a spasm of thinking that they had to go along withthe bill, the rest of the legislature went with it, despite what majority (now obvious by this reffferendum) of everyday New Zealanders felt. National has plans to make changes to the RMA system too. these are available as the first reading here : http://beehive.govt.nz/speech/speech+first+reading+rma red it very carefully, there are good points and bad. this is another multiple sherical objects- up waiting to happen.

my usual tactic is to put them into a plastic bag, then a quick smack on the head with the back of the spoon , (maybe a few more to make sure) then wrap up the bag and put in the bin.

knew a cockatoo that used to swing in circles around its owners finger singing "round and round and round and round!"

why not boil the snot out of it? surely that would help the situation? boil and boil and immerse in water for a few days then boil agian... maybe put it in a spare tank and see if it leeches tannins into the water. if it does keep boiling away? might be worth a try anyway...

ive got a jebo, and if it goes bang i doubt 1 150w would cut it.... dont like the sound of my fish being electrocuted! ive got nearly my perfect setup now after 3 years of student saving (and genorous donation 8) ) what heater do people recommend then? ive got a 250l tank, and ive been using 2 150w (i think they are :-? ) any brand in particular?

MINE! lol

lol, i bet you sound alot like me in real life! just i find it hard to convey in type... i will relent that yeast sugar mix is probably more viable options to the financially and dimensionally challenged.. but HCL and carbonate would be more fun...

point being that animal antics have given a genourous discount, and from thier site it says shipping to anywhere in NZ if over $100 and under 20kg (which i imagine it falls into) looking forward to the comp now. lets get it sorted soon so we can start planing.

phoenix, you almost sound sarcastic.. its still an idea though! :roll: