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Things about Phoenix's is that they get old and burn out! welcome new Phoenix - 55. Although from mexico the natural habitat for Axolotyl is cold water and Discus are a fish that live and enjoy some of the warmest waters so they really aren't suited as tankmates no matter the size. As for discus, the rule of thumb is about 50ltrs per fish and that would have to be optimum conditios to get anywhere the best from them. i have seen breeding pairs in 100ltr tanks but that is a temporary situation. If your are young the best you could do by them is keep their water conditions as best you can by small but very.very regular water changes until you can rehouse them by: A. selling OR B. Getting a bigger tank. Again, Welcome to the forum- there is some good advice and experience here-usually. Cheers!

The only Thing i'd add is that I wouldn't worry too much about Ph levels with yellows unless it is unusually low, ( less than 7). I think plants will be fine with them. I've seen yellows in planted community set ups. But a 100ltr tank is too small for a group of yellows or a single adult for that matter.

Anything happened? This could be just natural everyday behaviour with the fish looking to find a more secluded spot. But never say never as your L270 is tank bred from W/C and both initial breeders of it have said the F1 will breed at an earlier age-although I would have though yours to young. Is your male always in the cave? Does his tail stick out waving? Is he wavingflaring pectorals and ventral fins? This is him enticing a female. Is the female camped outside his cave- is there a sheltered spot to hide outside cave? These are all pre-cursor behaviour to spawning. Have you a pair or is it two young fish of same sex having little skirmishes over the optimum territory and stirring up substrate in process. If this is happening I wouldn't do much more than only small water change with vacumn. If not I would go on as normal.

I don't think anywhere in nature or our created worlds there is such a thing as a straight line graph. I guess life experience and wisdom comes from those moments when we are forced to question. I'll definitely save a toast for you this New Years Barrie- 2011 Bring it on! All the best to you and yours!

Yes and descendants of those fish are still around

I'm looking to change my up my African set-up too. Thinking Black background with Coral and limestone rock. Can't decide between white silica substrate or Black substrate/sand as I've seen a few show tanks like that and they are very striking.

Great new Matto- They are a great fish and you will find keen prospective owners for sure.

Once upon a time... I remember seeing many posts on this forum where individuals talked of the mythical L046 Zebra. How people would love to see this fish available here. I saw post full of speculation of colonies here being bred and what price the fish would be. Due to this interest the fish were imported. Marketing, branding or WHATEVER OTHER DESCRIPTION you wish to employ doesn't change the fact that those wishes were realized. I see little point in bringing personal grievances or bad feeling to any of the proponents that made this situation possible. Or drawing comparisons between those who made it possible to get these fish 'readily' available and how they go about sellling them. I guarantee if a number of us would love to have some zebs if our finances allowed it- now we have the chance. Congrats to all that took the punt and BOOHOO to those who have nothing more to do than look to find negatives or pull out old posts that really have nothing to do with "The price of fish' (excuse the pun).

I've just been watching my pair hovering up some T-bar fry I added. The live food is great for conditioning but they go ballistic at each other afterwards. The only time they have not tried to kill each other- reminds why i stopped keeping apistos. I have heart in mouth every morning before i see them both -ALIVE. I use Java moss that is grubby to feed my T bars and let them hide in so they can be big enough to eat Still can't get colouration in my male like yours though 'P' :oops:

Sorry to hear about the losses The 620 T is a cool tank but not ideal for most cichlids apart from dwarves. I'd be looking at fish that fill up the 'column' of water this tank provides. If it were me I'd keep substrate and use enough rocks to make a pyramid a more vertical stack. Get some anything from cory's, B'N's. loaches and/or a pair of blue rams or similar for bottom. Plant something like Cabomba or Val or anything easily grown that will grow vertically around the rocks. pick a 'mid level' swimmer like Harlequin Rasboras and have a small school of them. Have something like a Pantadon butterfly or some Hatchets that naturally on the top. Picking fish that use different levels in the water as opposed the territory of the space the bottom provides is IMO the best from the tank. I'd even suggest a pair of Angels if you weren't going other cichlids.

Yes ammonia levels would be good but if you added cycle and 'working' bio media I would have thought that wouldn't be issue. Firstly I would say that the 620T is not suitable for E-yellows- not long term anyway. Maybe grow out some small ones only. These fish need footprint- so a 3ft tank with same litreage would be better as they are are cichlid and are territorial. A four inch male would probably detremine that whole space is his and defend it. If the second fish is another male then he is a target and if female she is being harrassed by male for mating. E yellows are harem brooders and you need a few females for a male to stop one being harrassed to death or at least more space to get out of territory. E yellows do tend to 'play' amongst themselves so it is unlikely introduction of other species will change things and depending on what the "zebra' type fish is - you may have issues there too.

Yeah both are genus Protemela and the only two we get here in NZ of a family of stunning fish. I've kept Red Empresses for 4-5 yrs and my Old male just recently passed away. I have 3 juvi males about 8cm and they are in my experience and listening to others slow to colour up. The comparison was how this guy is colouring up at smaller/earlier stage as have others I've seen. He had no colour when he started out in the tank he's in. As for other Protemelas. I would love to get these guys available here too, as they are pretty commonly in Aquaria overseas, and protemelas run peacocks close as my favourites. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1360 http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1359

A few pics- 6cm and growing out nicely and showing an amount of colour at this size that i wouldn't expect from a Red empress at that size. Looking forward to seeing it in adult colour. cheers!

what is footprint of tank? Barbs would want 'long' rather than 'square'. What's you Budget- you could get bottom dwellers like BN's /cory for a few bucks up to a fancy plec. If you like the guppies,then go live bearers-guppies, platies, swordtails- heaps of varieties and asstd colours available. Such a simple set up that does look cool with a few plants wood etc. I think something like Cabomba would be beter than Val antawy for the live beares as it would encourage them down the water column. Sign of the times when "twisted' is OK and 'Straight' is frowned upon.

discus- Pair- minimal substrate- sponge filter and airball. Forget fancy filtration for tank that size- 10ltr bucket water change a day. I'd suggest harlequins( 6 for $20), one male dwarf cichlid like blue Ram($20) and some cory's or a chocolate zeb plec($40) plus some plants. I am perplexed a bit by all that technology for a 90 ltr tank though. hang on filter plus airstone plus frequent water change will give better consistency in tank that size IMO. The journey as opposed to destination is a great concept though

If I were cheeky I'd say hybrids are most common. I agree with Ryan and your suggestions with E yellows and Dems. They are great starter fish and don't require big tanks( big by cichlid standards). But there does seem to be a cycle of popularity with Africans and this can be based on what is new and Available. For instance it was only three yrs ago Kadango's and fryeri were easily found and a Red Empresses were hard to find and expensive- same with eyebiters, and now they are readily available and cheap because of people getting out and breeding them. Being able to supply young 4-5cm males for peoples display tanks as opposed 2cm fry is something I think is good. Any 'pure' strain of peacocks is always a good fish to have. I would say if someone gets/got a group of these which are in the shops fort $50 each and breeds them then they will recoup their money no probs. This was case of Red empress http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1235

Taking a step back- the discussion about a 90 lt tank. First thing that i would add that in all honesty i don't think the ph level in these fish's tank is a determining factor in the wellness, or breeding conditioning-the only excetion would be 'wildcaught' perhaps. If 'growing out and selling' is part of program, then 90 ltr is a poor option in tank size for this purpose, or is forming a group of 3-4 individuals of a fish that is a community/harem breeder. This tank and with E yellows as inhabitants would be better served by constant and frequent small water changes. Not to disparage the PH discussion, but I wouldn't see it as a major factor here..

'Starting A new 90 Litre African Cichlid Tank - Lots of Q's' All rhetorical?

Next time try methyline blue when you get eggs.

Zebra Finch?

get 1/2 dozen young yellows to grow out to get small breeding group, but that would be tops for that size. E yellows will outgrow that tank so bare that in mind If it were peacocks then maybe trio( iM 2-3F) of small variety like blue orchid-you would have to be picky on what sort, and definitely not big enough for male tank- you need multiple males to dissipate agression and you dont have space I'm in agreement with rest with dwarves- tang shellies if you could find them, or a small group of tanganyikan cavity brooder like julies, leleupi, brichardi, altos(expensive) to grow out and get a pair.

My understanding was that Gold line was the 'Tapajos' variant. based on description with the Brazilian panaques that were under umbrella of L27 Panaque(genus)nigrolineatus(species)'Rio.....(variant) would indicate perhaps that they are variants of smae species, particularly as they have lost(dropped) L#. Sorry off topic a bit- but safe to say we have determined that P. sp. cf. nigrolineatus`xingu` isn't here. It is probably one of the best way to handle plecs this size.

Dull eye is L191. Have seen only a few around. Mystic had a nice one she was trying to sell. Was nice but was also expensive. As for socialabilty (sic). I have seen pics on PC with two Adult Panaques in same tank but I think they are pairs. I have my 18cm+ girl in tank with 15cm+ L203, 15cm Hypostomus cochliodon, and 15cm male L204. The Royal undoubtedly rules the Roost amongst them and the other get out of her way. Flatfish has a pretty impressive looking big male by memory. Edit-Was waiting for your input Flatfish I've always assumed your big guy to be L190- My girl colour has greened up as she's aged.Has you one always been that colour? Also wonder if water/food effect colour a bit. If yours is L190 and male then one day I will have to get my pimp hat oiut. 8)

The 'Royal' we get here is more often than not L190 nigrolineatus. Hff have 7-10cm ones for about $120. Have seen the odd 'dull eye' and few people have decided their Royal is Goldline but I'd say it has more to juvi colouration of L190. Can't say that I have ever seen L27 including' Xingu' L134- A case where an importer 'threw' a common name fish he couldn't ID. They were labelled as 'Leopard Frogs' and a few( who probably know better these days ) jumped to assign L134 to them based on that common name. Those fish weren't even a 'poor relation' to a true L134. So in short -sadly no, L134 aren't here and haven't been here before. My favourite plec. L90- many of the fish ID'd here as L90 'papa' are in fact L203 'titanic'. Just to add though- we do seem to to get the odd plec through with one name that is in fact something else so who knows what little gems may be out there.

Absolutely! I think comprehension, and the skill to contextualise is indeed an important one.