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What temp was the tank you got it from and what temp is yours. I agree with meth blue and i would raise the temp of tank a bit as part of treatment. Is there anything thing in the tank that seem to cause it stress?

The unfortunate thing is that if you got more than one of the Zebs then the main threat to them could be each other. I have seen a Zeb happy in a community situation with a wide array of tankmates including other plecos with no real issues. It had earned it's way into that set up because of what it had done to others of its species in a species only tank. Suffice to say they won't be hovering under one rock as they are doing now at HFF when they get a bit bigger.

unfortunately it was 6.20pm by the time I left NZ couriers. Post haste were already shut, so I had to take them home and unpack everything, rehoue in the appropriate tanks etc. As i mentioned to the courier company-I can't just push this package to a corner and come back tomorrow. I suppose I could of gambled on fish lasting 36hrs in the bags, but there were a number of fish and there were breeders also. Now it will have to be nxt week :evil:

I do if that is part of packaging in terms of insulation. I don't double bag as a safety thing against leakage so much. i do the big squeeze test on the bag to ensure it is air tight or wont pop. In this case the amount of bags would do the same in terms of insulation as double bagging, except double bagging chews up space=$$

But if your heat is all from below and it's naturally escaping up, the radiation is one directional. Will that be as stable as having a heat source from above doing a different job? I'm not looking to heat. I'm looking to prevent heat escapism The poly in the middle on which the heatpads sits are broken peices. like a filter in a pipe. The cardboard is insulation- If you dont want to lose heat, or want to control its speed of decline- then take advantage of your best way to dictate that- the plate over the boiling pot thing? No?

Aint you seen the 'DVS' adverts

Yes, and I clarified the liability issue also. The fish have been rehomed and all is well with them although i would think it prudent to give them time before sending again. As I stated in earlier thread- it is pointless shooting the messenger in most situations so looking for an out come at that stage is hopeful at best. I guess I preempted myself in my about 'middle management' comment. I did speak to the Branch manager by phone, as I was not pleased. I had arrived at depot not long before closing as that means I pack late and fish spend as little time as possible in bags. I just believe that a title such as Manager requires appropriate responsibilty. I don't need to be told that "perhaps there is an issue here with our communications" . Thats why I am on the phone to him. I was actually looking for a resolution to that issue and an understanding of the moves that could be made to at least create equity in the current situation. I wouldn't mate. life is too busy anyway. But it is called brand loyalty. I started the thread looking for a replacement to my preferred supplier in the courier industry as they no longer supplied a service i required. i have been using that company many years for most of my freight needs private or business. I read here as a reply their policy might have been reviewed and two calls to them verified that fact. It is a shame I will now take your advice and search for a new supplier. I would have thought any manager worth their salt would understand that cost of keeping a current customer compared with luring a new one is basic Marketing 101. As for fish well-being. here is how the fish were packed. If we to pretend that was actually the reason for that policy anyway, as opposed to liability issue which i had already exonerated them from. Hey, we live in a world where someone will sue google maps for not showing a pothole, which then causes a broken ankle. And those heat pads are cosy feetwarmers :-? packing for a snug fit

So after ringing Nz couriers and been told by two customer service(Hah!!!) reps they couriered fish I arrived to find they wouldn't. Irony- been told by branch mngr on phone that that misinformation shouldn't have happened. I wonder if he's read his job description lately

Spoke to AKL depot of NZC and they are fine with it. I would say it is one of those cursed 'middle management' decision's based on lack of knowledge, and business acumen. Perhaps it needed someone to point out common sense and define the term 'core business' Never had good dealings with Fastways in terms of intercity deliveries.

Cool -I will ring to make sure then. Yes I had to laugh when the Woman at NZC desk told me about the rule. "We are just worried about the affect of couriering on the fish, and if it's cruel" she said. Then she added "I actually have thought about having a tank myself, I like going into that shop up the road to have a look". I was going to ask her how she thought those lovely fish got to that shop for her to look at, but as the saying goes-" Don't shoot the messenger" Cheers! for info.

Hi I did use NZ couriers and never had a problem until they decided that transporting fish was cruel. i have used Pace twice but even though they say delivery is nxt morning, and charge me for that srvice that hasn't happened and I've had to get recipient of parcel to colloect from depot as it wouldn't be delivered to late tin the day. Who is using who and is happy with service- looking at AKL-CHCH. Cheers! A.

How far do have to travel? When I've transported a tank from one place to another I do this. I get chilly bins and get water from the tank and put fish in them. Any other container that can carry some water from tank is good also. Empty tank, put any plants in plastic bags. Leave substrate in tank. If cannister filter just close valves and transport as whole. Trickle filters- collect media and keep in some of tank water. Transport Everything. I have stationwagon or use mates ute so this is easy. Set up tank- I use this as chance to give it a clean with a new well rinsed scotchbrite- nothing else. Add some of old tank water and add some fresh water. Acclimitise the fish and slowy add new water. Water will be cloudy but will be less of shock than shutting everything down. Cannister then gets a clean in the nxt couple of days. You will be surprised how uneffected the fish will be.

"Recently therehas been considerable taxonomix revision done to this genus, which was once thought to be monotypic. We now know that there are no fewer than two valid species, with several more nominal species under investigation". So assuming we hold with this information as being sound in its methodology, then, is not this debate on where on the time line you determine variants becomes new species, and how much taxonomix difference is needed to support the above statement ? A tenuous link perhaps- The yellow dots show the distribution of the Stuartgranti species. The interesting thing with them is that the wide array of colouration can be tracked in a graduation from on location to the adjorning one. eg. the subtle difference between the reddish bodies of Ngar-Mdoka-Chilumba in the north to the mainly yellow bodies of maleri, chipoka in the Sth. The red,green,white, and pink dots designate species like Jacobfriebergi, chitande where there is wide distribution with locational variances that have no real pattern to development. Each black dot indicates a individual species specific to one location. What is interesting is that many of these species are often involved in discussion on whether or not they should be included in the Stuartgranti group, mainly on the merits of the sort of differences in the Front case. Here again it would seem that an integral part of the equation is time. PS- my dot are completely out of scale with the spots the indicate on the 580km long lake, so dots right beside each other could be miles apart in reality. Some of the black and yellow dots however are in the same place and are seperated only by depth.

When you say 'lack of geographical isolation' I assumming the migratory habits of this fish are factored into some of the theories and opinions of this 'heady selection' of experts being quoted in this thread. As a deeper water fish does that make them greater travelers? Behavioural difference is sited, what do we know about seasonal or lifetime migration of these fish or lack of it? Do the terms 'distinct regional varieties' and 'lack of geographical isolation' in the same sentence lead to a logical conclusion? One would hope that to be the case. The 'art of science' is as much about the interpretation of facts as facts themselves.

I hope you aren't suggesting that Takahashi Nakaya and Ad Konnings should be included into the crowd of Chinese whisperers and 'chest beaters'. I can imagine there is always going to be debate about the issue of- at what level locational variances become defined enough to create the argument for new species. No more so than Rift valley cichlids and Sth American Loricariidae I would suggest that doesn't take away from the desirable situation of isolating these difference where ever possible. For the punter though, I can imagine it is pure semantics. I guess in this case I'm a punter because I look at Callum beautiful fish with babies on the way and yhink that many more can enjoy these genus at ever decreasing prices. Well done Callum. PFK is a great mag alright. I did subscribe for a year but got annoyed with all the reptile articles. Hmmm.. maybe should give it another go

I think it is fair to say David the internet has changed more than this. I agree with what you are saying in as much that, in pre internet days 'Discernment', 'Historical context', and 'Reputable Resouce' were the set of skills needed. They still are. But now, as with our fish, the more hands information travels through the more chance information has to loose purity. The internet is a giant game of Chinese whispers, played by an ever increasing number of players, who have had an Ear to Mouth connection with a brain bypass. A wonderful environment for those who can use it for their gain.

It would be a fool to try, particularly the Ancistrus genus. It also shows the exponential growth in interest that plecs as a whole have had in the hobby here and overseas. It is amazing to think that only 5-7 yrs ago the array of plecs we could have got into the country with barely a whisper.But then, you would have found perhaps a handful of people that were interested. If only we knew!!!!! AKA= the 'Hindsight Chesnut'

Talking to 'babyfish' last night and apparently we had a few L144 here 5 + yrs ago. They were definitely different from GBA's which were starting to pop up about the same time.

Looks great alright and would think it would be perfect breeding setup for what you have got.

So GBA's aren't L144. This is going to get messy.

A map of Lake Malawi The yellow dot which my very bad arrow ponits to is 'Chirwa Island.' The fish in question come from here and only here. That is how specific this the species is. As Ryan's has suggested if I was inexperienced but still so enthused by the thought of having such a rare fish and decided to pay 3 times what other fry that is meant to be ' of lower quality' would cost me to secure them, I would be disappointed that someone felt their right to deceive me was greater than my rights to a fair deal.

I call a spade a spade Alan. Reference to 45 yrs etc, is from information garnered, and not something fabricated . Indeed it is something continually used as I see as an conceited argument for not having to justify valid questions and issues, and generally treating the forum and its members with disdain and contempt when it suits. And an Advertising platform at other times. If you disagree I understand that. If we all thought the same it would be boring. If there is no response to the question we are asking in reference to this subject- I except and respect that. I also understand that respect is something I can't demand and have never sought to by avoiding an issue in order to be personal. 'Chicken and the Egg'?

With an avatar as you do and with links to other sites including 'cichlid Forum' you have buckleys chance of getting anything from Phil as you aren't target market. I sympathise with moderators and the choices they must make in situations such as this. I can see the rationale in keeping posts of of personal nature under wraps. But, It is hard though when one side of a debate has little interest in discussing 'issues' on their merit and so debate can turn into one of subjectivity where the facts are deliberately sidestepped and therefore enlightened and objective resolutions can rarely be made. This now, and for a long, long time, has been an Effective style of discourse when fact and truth are low priorities, and comments of a personal or unrelated manner make for a great smokescreen. . In the case of this thread, I would suggest that anyone who knew anything about African cichlids in this small community would look at the forumers partaking in this thread and hopefully deduce that the comments have a greater meaning than a tawdry case of 'Character assassination' A wonder by chance if one day if we see Neon tetras being sold on TM as 'Vivid blue Cardinals' the indigntion felt by some of the African cichlid crowd would find some context.

Look lets be honest. The trader has the delusional idea that all besides him is a clueless wonder with no idea of technology or the fish he is selling. Under his rules 45 yrs of experience ( what he's experienced in is up for conjecture) means everything. I met a man once with 50 yrs experience of Wagon wheel building. At least he had the sense enough to realise he was now redundant unless he adapted to a new way of thinking.. Those fish are no more Chirwa Is. than I am Axelrod himself.

Yes, very interesting Raises the question then on how 30 yrs of tank breeding could dictate any species development especially when isolation is enforced upon them. Would isolated populations of rare fish kept in other countries develop to an extent that within 30-50 yrs they no longer identify and look to breed with each other. And if so, which would be the more valid species as far as experts are concerned? I think of a situation where importation regulations would mean even though a species could be interbred within NZ it would eventually develop differently to one in Europe. Yes and you face regulatory factors that we don't yet.