The Future of the hobby in NZ?

[David R]

The Red Hump Eartheater thread got me thinking a bit, so I thought I'd air those thoughts, and see what others are thinking [or doing?] on this subject...

Its been nearly 12 months since the first of Hollywoods German shipments came in and I received my group of A. festae. The excitement of keeping a fish I have been lusting after for years has not yet worn off, and given the colour and size of the pair I have ended up with if anything it has increased. The sad thing is that A. festae has been on "The List" (here's Link for those who haven't seen it) since day one, its just taken a long time to get them here. There are still so many interesting species that have gone from being ultra-rare to fairly well available in the years since The List was created, and the only reason they aren't on there is because no one has done the work [myself included!].

Is anyone actually interested in doing the work to get new species here? I hear keen people making murmurs all the time, but is anyone actually making a co-ordinated effort to channel this enthusiasm into something productive? If so, great, how can I be a part of it? If not then why not? Are we all content just keeping the same old fish? Obviously we have to be realistic, stingrays will never be allowed in as they are venomous and snakeheads are unlikely given the publicity associated with them overseas, but I can think of many Central and South American cichlids that could/should be available, and I'm sure some of the African keepers can think of an equally large number from the Old World. It costs around $500 IIRC to make a submission, and it needs to be backed up with scientific papers. Not impossible, here's a link to download the form; http://www.ermanz.govt.nz/resources/pub ... NO1R-2.doc

I am not a member of any club [nor do I plan on becoming one as my job makes attending meetings impossible] so I have got no idea as to what (if anything) FNZAS is doing to increase the number of species available here, perhaps someone can fill me in?

And similarly I have little knowledge of the wholesale/importing process, so perhaps one of the industry people here could give us some insight as to how it all works. If we did the work to get a bunch of new fish added to the list, would we be able to order them from quality suppliers like Jeff Rapps (http://www.tangledupincichlids.com)?

[Jennifer]

Interesting topic.

pm'd 8)

[smidey]

interesting indeed. for me i would like to see more tropheus moorii but that simply comes down to $. they are already on the list so it must only be the fact no one including myself has approached an importer, through our lfs with a very large wad of cash to bring in rainbows or similar which i suspect will be the same reason the importers have not brought them in themselves without up front sales, the elusive wad of cash.

[Barrie]

I too have recieved fish from Hollywoods that have been exciting to establish.

People in general dont want to pay for these specials that arrive yet are excited as well when they come in.

Problem I find is that those in my club/fancy wont commit to breeding them so they simply die out again

Apathy is a great problem but my disapointment is caused by my want for the fish of my interest to become established whereas others in my club dont share my interests in getting these fish here and breeding...problem is mine and Im beginning to belive we should stick to the same old specie thats already here

I simply cant be bothered breeding now days so when mine are gone, so will I

I too have caught the apathy bug

[Rabbit]

The main problem with the already allowable species is they have to be bought in bulk, other wise its a waste of a quarantine tank to the importer and the cost of freight $$$! In most cases the fish will be bred privately and sold amongst hobbyist before the wholesaler can turn over the quantity they have imported and will end up losing more money.

If we did the work to get a bunch of new fish added to the list, would we be able to order them from quality suppliers like Jeff Rapps (http://www.tangledupincichlids.com)?

You would still have to go through an importer in order to bring anything into the country so the "import" can be quarantined.

[the-obstacle]

I too have recieved fish from Hollywoods that have been exciting to establish.

People in general dont want to pay for these specials that arrive yet are excited as well when they come in.

Problem I find is that those in my club/fancy wont commit to breeding them so they simply die out again

Apathy is a great problem but my disapointment is caused by my want for the fish of my interest to become established whereas others in my club dont share my interests in getting these fish here and breeding...problem is mine and Im beginning to belive we should stick to the same old specie thats already here

I simply cant be bothered breeding now days so when mine are gone, so will I

I too have caught the apathy bug

Apathy sucks and too often this is the case in NZ. I'm only new to the hobby but I'm already considering setting up a breeding program for the fish that I really like. My only problem is that I'd like to do it as more than a hobby and would seriously look into breeding 'special' imports if the market was there. I don't mean to make money out of it but to at least be able to sell the fish I can breed on to people that actually want them and will pay what they're worth.

The last thing I'd want to happen is sink a lot of money into breeding some awesome fish that were on the list but not usually imported to find that the 10 people that said "hell yeah, I want some" then weren't interested a year or so later when the stock became available.

I suspect this is the standard feeling amongst most local breeders - especially the ones that rely on it for a living.

I equate it to 'the covers band' music theory - if they don't now the music they won't buy it. there is no point being an awesome covers band that does [insert relatively unknown but awesome musician here] songs really well when people in the pub won't give a shit and will most likely leave. "Play something we all know bro!"

Anybody want to buy some guppies? :lol:

[smidey]

i wonder how many fish are on the list but are not being kept here, maybe instead of putting effort into allowing more species lets explore what we can get first.

[Rabbit]

i wonder how many fish are on the list but are not being kept here, maybe instead of putting effort into allowing more species lets explore what we can get first.

+1

[diver21]

good comunication will be needed between FNZAS and an importer before this gets underway as the importer will need to have acess to the species of fish before we can put through a submission as whats the point im making a fish available for import if the importer cant get ahold of it

i wonder how many fish are on the list but are not being kept here, maybe instead of putting effort into allowing more species lets explore what we can get first.

the answer is alot!

[smidey]

i concentrate on tropheus & under the moorii listing there are sum 30 different variants including the rainbows available so i would be well happy with a couple of them to start with.

[hovmoller]

i wonder how many fish are on the list but are not being kept here, maybe instead of putting effort into allowing more species lets explore what we can get first.

I agree.. and that is a good point.. it just so happens that David has a passion for Eartheaters and that includes myself and there are only 3 species on the list, 2 of which are named incorrectly..

Perhaps there could be a better dialog between hobbyists and importers/retailers. eg. an importer/retailer could post in this forum saying "we have a chance of importing x amount of this Corydoras "whatever" and people with a genuine interrest could sign up (and maybe pay a deposit of some sort) for a certain share of the import... Everybody wins... I think this way could open the door to many new species.. but of course people have to commit!

[Rabbit]

good comunication will be needed between FNZAS and an importer before this gets underway as the importer will need to have acess to the species of fish before we can put through a submission as whats the point im making a fish available for import if the importer cant get ahold of it

the answer is alot!

So you make them available, the wholesaler has access now 50 people each need to buy 3 for it to be worth while, not to mention a wholesaler cant buy pass retailers.

but of course people have to commit!

Yup

[livingart]

how many posters belong to the fnzas?

davidr doesn't but is asking what the fnzas is doing about it

[Rabbit]

how many posters belong to the fnzas?

davidr doesn't but is asking what the fnzas is doing about it

And how he can help.

If so, great, how can I be a part of it?

[smidey]

i'm not a member

[Ira]

So you make them available, the wholesaler has access now 50 people each need to buy 3 for it to be worth while, not to mention a wholesaler cant buy pass retailers.

Like has been mentioned, for anything remotely expensive or unusual you're going to have a hard time finding 50 people to even buy 1. Everyone goes, "OMGOMGOMG, I'd buy a dozen of them if someone brings them in!!" And then when they're brought in everyone evaporates.

[REEVESTA]

Have we ever had Monocirrhus polyacanthus here before?

[Sunbird73]

not sure if there are more than one type of leaf fish, but I saw them at HFF earlier this year. (admittedly I had walked past them probably 10times or more before I actually *saw* them LOL)

[Fruju]

I agree with exploiting the species we already have here, as there are some gems that are yet to appear on the list. And although rays are awesome, David is right about the 0% chance they will be brought in. However, I think alleyways into broadening the range a species similar to what we have here is not unreasonable. For example: we already keep a few species of bichirs here, but there are many more varieties overseas with the same requirements and habitats that are prevented from entering the country. As is the case with dwarf cichlids, larger cichlids, barbs and many tropical fish that are popular overseas enough to become established in the hobby over here too, yet pose no threat to any NZ environment/species.

And no, Im not a member of fnzas yet.

[Joe]

OK I know it's not a fish (it's a plant), but I would love to see Blyxa japonica become availible. Also it would be nice if we could get some Hemianthus callitrichoides 'Cuba', and dwarf hairgrass and Riccia sp. Dwarf.

It would be nice if more Apistos could be imported. There are tonnes on that list! Why aren't any of those different species imported?

Sundadanio axelrodi 'Blue' should be regularly imported.

I think it would be nice if we could have tropical shrimp species too.

[Fruju]

Isn't the reason why plants and shrimp are not generally brought in because they have a higher chance of acclimatising to our environment?

[phoenix44]

Isn't the reason why plants and shrimp are not generally brought in because they have a higher chance of acclimatising to our environment?

One of the reasons, yeah.

Plants are assigned a score out of 100 based on several environmental factors, and probabilities of establishing in the cold water ways.

Currently they are looking at cabomba and r. rotundifolia as they have high scores (80+ IIRC).

[Ira]

One of the reasons, yeah.

Plants are assigned a score out of 100 based on several environmental factors, and probabilities of establishing in the cold water ways.

Currently they are looking at cabomba and r. rotundifolia as they have high scores (80+ IIRC).

Given cabomba seemed to grow ok in my pond...

[ryanjury]

There are plenty of awesome fish for most walks of life already on the lists that we don't see, this maybe due to availability or cost, the major issue as it has already been pointed out is when these fish come into the country no one buys and breeds them. When someone new comes into the country we need to buy them and breed the snot out of it and spread it all around the place for it to have some chance of staying here.

The FNZAS fish committee are already looking into the importation list and answering some of the questions that have been raised so hopefully the answers to some of the questions you have asked will come out.

At the end of the day without people breeding stuff we will loose it, who knows when the import will be the last of that type that ever comes in I already know of a few fish from the latest "german" import that one of the importers did that are probably already gone..

[phoenix44]

what fish is that?