firenzenz

Is there good flow around the 2nd lot of eggs? and are they secure from predation. If so then no reason for egggs not to hatch unless they weren't fertilised.

Dad will be fine. He's well set up to survive that period of time without food. Weigh down some courgette oustside cave is an option. he'll be ducking out briefly when he gets a chance.

Pseudo meaning? Against the real thing- give me the youtube link.

Bunched up?- how much room do you reckon is in mums mouth?

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/rainbows.htm You can get almost all of these rainbows here plus a few that aren't listed. I once had a 4ft planted with rainbows, and I would happily have one again. Colours are amazing Animal shack in Pukekohe usually has 2-3 varieties.

Air stone under a breedind trap - just stripped my big Demmy girl this morning, eggs happy. One winked ar me

I use my daughter old blue plasatic shell pool from when she was small, so no fish so no problems. Can't see how the larvae themselves would create such devastation, but I could imagine some pond water which is cold could bloom with all sorts of baddies when mixed with warm tank water, along with disease carry tadpoles.

"Riddle me this" or "What are you doing Dave"

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

NZ reds- Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, when a small fence of the top would have sufficed.

David As far as I'm aware it has been this fish is recognised as it's own species and therefore its own name, but I do agree that A. sp maleri Rubens would be probably a name that would better suit the fish if the objeact was to classify it as you suggesting. Starts to get crazy though. German Red would be 'Aulonocara Maleri chipoka german red'. There is no doubt that in Europe where F0 and F1 stocks the naming of fish is adhered to by enlightening breeders. The equivalent in new world is hard to find, except perhaps plecs where varietal of same species are given different L#'s. The point of this thread at the end of the day isn't whether a particular fish has a correct Latin name, although I agree with your rationalle. It is whether a fish is actuallly what it was thought to be, and if you can't be 100% yes on that answer, what then is your philosphy. And that is where differences ly. Where Ego can elevate one's decision making to that of flying in the face of what is now popular thought. As of interest and based on your view - Should blue Dempsey have its own Nomeclature. Is it hybrid or own species, line bred or genotype.

You fell into that thanks Phil. Look up irony next time your in the web. What I did was to illiustrate a point . Fool! Goose/Gander thing. Seems specifics are something you care about after all.

The first photo in Phil's Auction is a photo off Planet Catfish and was contibuted by the Peruvian Aquarium Group. Phil may well be a member of that group, and the photo may be his and of his fish- I don't know. If it is then he is submitting photo's of a fish only has the common name for and putting out to world as something based on his whim and a prayer, and it looked like something. If so , seem his bad habits aren't confined to our shores. I wonder if he has reddish/orangey ones.

Yeah That was an option, and I'm not going to say that it isn't. I've based mine on the Location . All the plecs that Phil brought in llike Iquitos Tigers, and the other panagolus are from upper Amazon and came through A peruvian supplier. As does the Hypostumus. The point is that he will know or could have known but seems to prefer 'his' names

David Hi The genus for all the fish we're discussing is Aulonocara Jacobfriebergi, Baenschi, Maleri, Hansbaenschi are all seperate species amongst the many peacocks there are. Within these species are locational variants and thats where the common name tends to come in. This is also the case for line bred fish( a single species bred to enhance an attribute, usually colour), which dont exist in the lake. These fish aren't Hybrids though. Alulonocara Rubescens is a man made deritive of Aulonocara Maleri, through line breeding a deeper reddish colour and more compacted body shape. Named after Peter Rubin who developed the line in germany. There is even a "German Red' which is even more specific as it was developed from a single locational variant. The common names serve the purpose as a locational marker in some cases, but are often used as a marketing tool. A 'lemon Jake' is variant of Jacobfreibergi so all lemon jake should be Jacobfreibergi but all all Jacobfreibergi aren't lemon Jake. 'Eureka' is a line bred Jacobfreibergi for the same reasons as Rubins. Confusing- wait until you get into all the different Stuartgranti variants. If you were to google "Firebird" a lions share of the hit would show Aulonocara Hansbaenschi, not rubescens. This is one of the better web resources for These fish. http://www.cichlidforum.com/profiles/re ... p?genus=17 Phil obviusly chose not to show this auction. Same dealer, same fish, same photo. The reason obvious when you read. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 151159.htm This isn't just a case with Malawi's, and is more wide spread than should be and it is importers and retailers here that in my opinion are totally misreading the potential for what will be a growing market. Eg. I like Uaru's but they aren't that popular to mainstream. HFF has had adults named Uaru's sitting in a tank for a while. So what do they do when they got in babies. Called them "Triangle cichlids". Same fish ten feet away but different name- Marketing! As for Phill- Thank christ for us he doesn't breed dogs. Imagine the Child killers he would unleash on us, all so he could tell us how great he thinks his house. What a joke. What a pity thats the best justification he can use to support a dying philosphy. As for the House. I've been there, obviously I know mine, and it's always a pleasure to visit Tropheus. Guess who comes third. I guess that's what happens when quality becomes your pursuit and your aim is to look past the reach of your own hand. That is a personality trait that has nothing to do with age. Footnote. Phil is auctioning "yellow sailfin pleco's". I don't know to what success. But if he got of his ass and did the homework I bet there would be a market For Hypostomus Hemicochlidon Phil would recognise the location of this fish I know but he's not reading this anymore cause the cots empty. So I guess I shouldn't expect to see the name change on the auction eh! http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... es_id=1325

Are you saying Phil that you still have an Import/Quarantine License. Please confirm. If you don't , then what exactly would someone be buying in terms of your business Phil you have beeen breeding for many years. You started at a time when fish keeping was nothing that is today, and peoples expectations were quite different. http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/names- ... tml#365191 I understand you may not recall this thread( drams and all), but I do. It is obvious from your threads there you are not an authority on African fish, and that stepping into a discussion about them with Tropheus who I know does, shows what you are an authority on. B***S*** As for Discus, perhaps Chin and the like could make comment. This thread started with a querie about the source and type of fish in an Auction, you have done nothing to provide a solution other than admitting you are part of the problem.

And here I thought I was going crazy... Congrats Tropheus.

I have one of my Copadichromis Azureus females who is as blue as the male, and is a good holder, as well as being boss of alll the other girls, hence her nickname 'Dutchie'. My Fryeri male was 6inches and 2yrs old and just upped and died one day for no reason at all as I could see.

Only problem is Phil that that phoito is off the internet not the fish for auction. Yes it it looks like a nice rubescens. Pity the title on the auction is for "Baenschi" In fact he is 95% certain of that as stated. What name will you use? The shot of mine is about 8mths old and fish coloured up well since. As for the other fish images I posted earlier, none of them are crosses. They are young Maleri, Baenschi and Jacobfriebergi. Once again- thanks for helping me reinforce the point.

good post Phil If your 'firebirds" were to breed true, and it turns out that they are Red Rubins, would you then consider ommiting an incorrect common name. I note there are another couple of threads that are discussing very similar issues. http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/apisto ... 33352.html. I'm not saying people are purpoely trying to deceive, but when people who procure fish from a source once removed from importers/recognised breeder and put it upon themselves to decide the merits of that fish later down the line is a dubiuos practice for even those who have been dealing with this family of fish for years and know their tendancies. It would seem that using the internet alone for ID is fraught for disaster. Personally, I would flag my $60.00 bucks and breed ' unknown pecock" and look to sell for a similar price, but I have bonafide A. sp. Rubescens so thankfully a decision that I don't need to make And for those who think that IDing down the track when they colour up is a solution, then ID these three, using the net or however you want.

If the MAF list is an arse and is outdated in terms species descriptions and new updated names, then thats a Govt dept not doing it's job, not an invitation to use their shoddy business practise as a role model. points full of "Most likely's" and 'possibly's'. It's called stating a fact based on opinion, and it don't work anymore!! The whole point seems to be about a bunch of dubious fish and rights to ommit quality or consistency from the equation. There is a choice- and while a price oriented product has it's place, the business model behind should be more than just a continuation of a mindset that are not as prevailent as once they were. Look at the difference in Discus in the last 5 yrs. The googling tool we use for rearch is the same thing most people use to upskill in this hobby. Will it take the consumer to change bad habits. Or will names just be altered again to serve that purpose. There is a place in the market for both philosophies, there is no argument there.

Yeah - Baby fish got 1/2 dozen and patterning is far moire that of L168 than L052. The ground colour is deeper too as with L168. Both are Dekeyseria genus and very similar except from different rivers/countries. Seem to be good algae eaters and relatively easy to breed. Look out GBA's. Really nice fish. It will change patterning/ colour depending on its tankscape, colour of substrate and mood. This can be a blotchy pattern.

Those are L168 from what 've seen. Even though stupid bloody "bumblebee" made up name from importer. Dont know why they couldn't be butterfly or even flounder like everywhere in the world else including here a few years ago.

Nay! to that Sorry Lame post

You are the walking advertisement of my argument. Yes google- go for your life. but don't come back with half bake information. Don't google and take the first thing you read as gospel. Real reasearch would have lead to the origin of the term Nyaasae. It is derived from the pre Independence name for malawi and the name of the lake before it changed to lake Malawi and was still under Portuguese authority So a revised desription could well be Aulonocara Sp. Malawi- which would include all and every peacock species in lake Malawi. Go on google again, this time 'nyassae' or 'nyassa' under google images and tell me what you see. It won't be one species shown but many all under the broad umbrella of Nyassae/Malawi grouping. So If I go by google, and spurn common sense then I can interbreed without a problem? There is a A.sp Nyassae but it isn't even a species that is widespread or known through the hobby The net is indeed a wonderful tool that like all tools requires a semblance of skill and knowlege to ensure it doesn't trip you up. This is why non-scientific names used incorrectly and without discretion will lead to a situation descibed earlier by Ryan. Any other argument as I can see is just a justification for being 'lazy' in this respect. An argument based on an overview of what used to happen does nothing to ensure the quality of future stock. This is now! I believe the 'curve' of people wanting the best and most pure variants of any fish here is exponential and that is where I intend to hitch my wagon.