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Yeah do it Rochelle. Buying a colony of such fish at an early age( especially at that price) is a great way to ensure that they continue in numbers, as while people buy in 1 and 2's we are putting too much responsibility on Mr pleco and the like to make sure that these fish are still in NZ in 10-20yrs time. Just keep your grubby mits off the L260's thats all! LOL

I think when you mix mbuna's with peacocks or Utaka species which are by in large less aggressive and territorial then you will always have some issues. I've never kept cobalts so not exactly sure how aggressive they are in the world of mbunas but they do appear to be the limiting factor when you list your other fish, probably most of all with the lionheads which will be competing for the same spaces as the cobalts, so that could be problem. I'd say that without the cobalts all the other fish will co-habitat in relative harmony, and give you more scope to build the colour your'e after, as you could happpily add a few of any number of colourful species. Other Peacocks, Electras, Red empress, Copadichromis, will all add colour. Add more than one so aggression levels are spread around, as I regard the red shoulder as one of the more bullish peacocks I'd definitely look to increase the number of Dems as that guy will be not happy by himself, they need to be in groups. Perhaps increase the yellows as well, hopefully you can grow up your babies in the growout tank and reintroduce when big enough The red shoulder's should be fine, even if you kept the cobalts. as long as you have defined spaces for both they won't mind each other, well as much as a mbuna can tolerate other tankmates. The great thing about these fish is that you can have quite a busy tank as long as your maintenance is good, and those numbers can help dissipate the aggression levels.

I guess that is why we call this place a forum eh! All opinions on an issue are valid regardless of whether or not they are in agreement with everyones mode of thinking. Who would be the determinant of what is allowable based on "perceived" 3rd parties requirements? Surely if the forum runs its course then the correct info will filter to the top, as in this thread.

Yes it is hot and snipey weather but.... Smidey, when I first read the post I could shut my eyes and imagine the sort of fish that was being discussed, for no other reason than the unfortunate fact that there are so many around. The image of bubbles fish is one I've seen in the tanks of the so called prestige shops in AKL. Not one or two but a whole tank full. Rubbish fish from rubbish stock. As for mutants. Anyone who bred fish or anything for that matter will eventually get "runts" or some sort of throwback in a spawn of fry. In the wild these would generally get weeded out through natural selection and or/or predation. Unfortunately the unatural environment doesn't afford itself the responsibility that nature does. The fact that 'Caeruleus' was the chosen nomenclature is as far as I was aware just because that the first of the species documented in the fifties were the blue variety, before the yellows, so the name has stuck. The white bellies are quite natural, and as tropheus has noted they are more prevailent in young, perhaps yellowing up as they mature. The problem can be that some can appear very clean at fry stage only to "muddy up". I've even noticed that clean adults can develop faintest of barring as they get quite mature. There is a blue varity in the wild that has barring But what we are talking about here I believe is completely substandard stock, where even the fry are showing barring etc. it is a shame that once again our retailers continue to disrespect us and the hobby by supplying such fish. They should know better. So buyer beware. Buying a 'known' fish on TM I concede is a lottery but from a shop at full retail-No! Just a note- Patrick at Goldfish Pagoda has juvi's that look not bad at under $10 each.

Totally agree with Ryan. I can't believe what some reputable retailers will try to pass off as electric yellows. I've seen- at best muddy yellowy brown examples through to some bumble bee type of lookalike. I have a few offspring from couple of parents I bought 4 years ago, and the difference in them and some of the ones I've seen lately is chalk and cheese.

I agree Marto. Malawi's and tanganyikans for that matter I think will happily live in breed in a variety of Ph levels. I would say that 99.999% of Malawis we have here have never been near the lake, nor for that matter, have a number of their preceeding generations. Additives are fine if you are comfortable in knowing what you are doing as it sounds like you are. I would suggest that it isn't that necessary for those uninitiated in it or those who aren't as regimented in their processes. I look for a stable environment, except in a breeding tank when I use change as a trigger. "Knowing the special conditions of african ciclids in their natural environment I try to give them these conditions as close as I can." The lake(Malawi) is 560 km long 75km wide at its widest and , and 700mtrs at its deepest point. The Lake Malawi Biodiversity conservation project (1996-200) sites the myriad of isolated systems where PH can range significantly due to local influences such as run off, ground water, composition of rock, depth of water and flow when close to rivers. Chances are that your tank(s) are housing fish that could naturally occur hundreds of kilometres apart. I am adding chemicals , just in different way, and perhaps more in line with how it happens in the lake. This doesn't suggest that I'm looking to create a natural set up.

I don't add any chems or additives to my tank water which like yours comes out around 7. I prefer to naturally buffer. I have coral sand or aragonite in my tanks as substrate and either some coral rock and limestone in my aquascaping as well as coral fingers in with my bio media in filters. I usually get PH up to the high sevens with this method. This with small but relatively regular water changes seems to work fine going by the regularity of the breeding going on. I would say that would still be the case were the PH closer to 7.

Sitting up in the hills sweltering. What I wouldn't give to jump in that water right now. Beautiful.

I am glad you have brought this up Smidey. here is a pic of the same fish but at a younger age. Here s the link to the profile you have got your shot. http://www.cichlidforum.com/profiles/sp ... hp?id=1368 And here is the link to my fish: http://www.cichlidforum.com/profiles/sp ... hp?id=1369 The difference : not much except for the the lineage. My Red empresses were from Tropheus and your I suspect came from AAE1. I think both came from the same source in CHCH but at different stock at different times therefore the difference in colouring. There are in fact 10 protomelas taeniolatus listed and they are all different due to the region of the lake from whence they came. Only the sub species from Namalenje Is. are refered to as "Red empress" I did at the time Alex was selling these query the history of his as the adults appeared a little different from mine and perhaps thats why some are less vivid than the images they have reffered to. All this is a bit of speculation, and longwinded. the short answer to your question is yes I am sure that my fish is a Red empress.

A recent pic of my biggest boy.

I'm sure you'll find that under diversion there will no 'record' as it were. I agree it is an ...(Language removed ).., and as I said Justice often has little to do with it. But do you also want something like this hanging around for months and months as the courts will string out proceedings for over a year. Chances are formal proceeding will be months away. get it done and out of your life I say.

Justice will prevail most probably in the end, and that will be at the hands of the courts. It is unfortunate that it is the role of police is to find a way of getting a conviction in such cases, based on the legislation the alleged offence fulls under. When this legislation is arguably bias then "Justice" has very little to do with the Police actions in fulfilling that goal. Even if they had some- not too many pieces of law allow for police common sense or discretion anymore. The irony is that the police have a bottomless pit of money to spend in pursuit of a conviction- money that is contributed to by your friend in his taxes. But if this were not the case then would we not have a situation where Police are given more power, and is not even worse. I once spent $7000.00 going to court to defend myself only to finally have the police had admit that they couldn't actually find a law that I had broken, so I had no case to answer. I even sued them and won but never saw a cent of the fine the court ordered them to pay. I'd tell the guy if his record were good to plead guilty as per lawyer's advice, take diversion. I agree it is not justice, but perhaps Karma might catch up on the girl. It is a travesty the amount of man hoursthat are dedicated to domestic violence in this country and anyone who uses the system to pervert the truth is a pitifull individual.

Good Riddance to the rat, and bring on my friend the OX! Stoic, and hard working- could be the call sign for this year eh?

A lot of talking in Circles. There are many forms of smart, bright, intelligience. There are many ways to achieve an objective and anyone who dismisses the idea that there is something to learn everyday they live regardless of it source is missing out. You're talking about what people are learning, and touching on the process of that learning as well. Five year olds being taught things such as finance and credit is a lot of rubbish. I wonder if there should be more emphasis in they manner in which we impart knowledge and communicate with our young, and the level of political or social doctrine we will accept in that process. Time will be the chief determinant on how a Philosphy of Political correctness in our recent history will shape the minds and lives of the generations that have been most affected by it. The wonderful thing about human history is that in many aspects it is only the length of a human life. "Freedom comes at a cost"- will always be a topical and current truism. The rationale to look to the State( whether govt or school), to provide solutions to social or economic problems is, ironically coinciding with a time where those same states entities have legislated against the ability of individuals to determine resolutions based on their requirements. We have to adhere to ridiculous social ideals that are determined in many cases by societies lowest common denominators. The problem with a philosphy like that it is non aspiration, it draws a line in the sand that is beneath many of us, and will eventually achieve more of its goal- To make people less independent, more dependent, and where the idea surfaces that the that same said State needs to be the one to solve the problem. The result - socially brainwashed boof heads crying to Govt to make things right. I wonder if they were of the same people who were getting diplomas( subsidised by taxpayers) in Eastern belly dancing, or another Utopian flight of fancy. Too many who have accepted social engineering based on the betterment of all, only to see many individuals poorer for it, and I'm not talking money. Hate to say it but there are going to be a whole heap of unprepared people out there if that is still the best they can offer as a resloution. All this and the recession is only in its infancy. There is no such thing as straight line graph in economics, we would agree on that yet we endeavoured to flatline the social graph based on whimsical social idealism. Robert Owen gave up on this notion nearly two hundred years ago. It is interesting though that that tone of this thread has moved towards the social aspect of what was an ecomic topic.

As said before housing is part of the issue. In a bullish market where capital gain were daily people and banks were speculating. A 100% mortgage was given because in such a market the bank was secure that they would recover funds with that gain. Your ability to repay it had nothing to do with the equation. Years ago I needed 25% deposit because I was buying bare land. I wonder what will happen when all those Xmas bills on Visa's and the like are due, when the surplus of property's bring prices back even more and those with high percentage mortgages are fighting to get anywhere near they price they paid and are hamstrung with debt. How many wide screen plasma's and fancy electronic gadget are sitting in homes because the perception was they weren't costing anything. It's not just New Zealand where consumerism has run rampant. At least in NZ the banking system is regulated enough. In the US countless of those who paid $20,000 down payment have just walked into the bank with the house keys, then the bank goes down, because it has no money, just a whole lot of houses in desserts they can't sell. We need countries to trade with and buy our goods, yet Fonterra is procuring more and more space to store stock they can't sell. I know too many people who have lived beyond their mean, driving cars that they couldn't really afford. We aren't good saver's. Many in this country fit into the realm of cash poor but asset rich. And where many have thrown cash at liabilities rather than assets Perhaps rather than asking a Govt to give you something ask them for an incentive to save, ask them for an incentive to provide for your future in a way that suits you. Ask them to get out of the insurance business which they clearly have no justifiable reason to be in as the ACC situation would suggest. Perhaps the long held view that people will abuse privatized schemes will make way for the view that smart people can make smart decisions and should have the right to do so. Too many people looking over too many fences. Recession?- I personally don't think it happened here yet hence a lot of rhetoric of "self prophecy". I started my business in 1990 and while that "recession" might only be a blip compared to this one I still think that if you are good enough, strong enough and have the intestines to make things happen then such a time can be good for you. I make no apologies for a lot of the dead wood that might and will be swept away. Too many trees planted in unsuitable soil for too long, unprepared and unskilled to do much about it. NZ is a place where we said " She'll be right mate". I wonder if somewhere it has become a place where the edict has become "she'll do mate". Perhaps this is the time to reassess.

It's aggression will be the same as in the goldfish tank, so anything slow moving will be a potential target for that aggression. Bn's will get hassled. Better suited for fast moving tankmates.

Para plec= L075, yes I have one and have seen others available time to time. L48 & L368- have never seen them here but L014 and L253 have been here and are also scobiancistrus so no reason why they wouldn't be allowed. Same with L121 and L273- other peckoltia and psuedancistrus species have been imported, so there is also a precident. L173,L174,L236,L250- all hypancistrus and from Brazil. So while there are other Hypans that are here the chance of getting the ones you've listed are slim as they are on the "Ibama" banned export list so we would be relying on our importers to have them come through as a "Mis- ID" for them to turn up. I would say that getting them here, through customs and quarantine is probably easier than getting some of the importers to actively seek those or other 'named' plecs rather than buying the bargain basement non-identifiable ones that others markets have passed over, and that we then accept here and create names for, or where they are supplied as only males hence they get the cheap price.. Many of the species you've listed have been captive bred also.

perfect size for this- dwarf flags and apistos can add to the dwarf list. A planted tank with wood and rock hiding places with a pair of dwarfs and a school of dither fish will give you heaps of entertainment. You could chuck in a BN or GBA as well

Where did they come from? Did you get them from a particular source , and how much do you know of their history? Common Bn's here could be any number of ancistrus species, and your are most probably just another combination of a hybrid union. I've got some similar to yours, some smaller and darker, some with yellow tips to tails etc. Many plecs will have a metallic sheen to them on closer inspection Unless they were bought as a particular species through an importer. But Even they will creatively attempt to name a ancistrus species based on marketing rather than fact. Unknown ancistrus hybrid is my suggestion, depends how creative you want to be I guess. cleans the same though eh?

Fantastic all right Mr pleco can you ammend : -Snowball to snowflake- snowball =L102 Hypancistrus species inspector. -L204 =flash pleco -Medussa= L255 Butterfly plec- if this is from recent imorts then almost certainly L168 dekeyseria brachyura. I know the there was shipment a few years ago that were called L52( I recall catbrat IDing them as) but I never saw those. Amazing stuff!!!

There are some right up the tamaki estuary. We were fishing 1kg mono with 15lb fluro the other day, and a few were peeling and nailing the corn. Pretty hard as they only come down to this pool at low tide when the water is fresher, so plenty to snag on. Good fun!!

just don't get caught doing this. The transportation of live Koi will land you in lots of hot water, and even that won't make it taste better bows and arrows ?- what no light tackle fisherman out there. first one to go line weight wins.

Ah! they were only playing, a little scuffle over a cave. It's those pectoral odontodes that that try to plunge into the side or belly of other where armour is less that is the killer. Even worse when they beat up on the ladies- very 'un' PC.

I'd flag the polarizer personally, losing 1 1/2 stops outways any advantage the polarizer might add. Flag off the tank to reflections. Flat sided tanks up to 10mm thick are great, the curved or rounded tanks are obviously going to distort your image. I endeavour to shoot in a dark room with tank lights on , sit and wait in dark clothing, as I am often shooting plecs and hidey fish. Colour correction-whether glass or lights are easily sorted. The most important piece of glass is the lens. Often because of the nature of fish shooting "wide open" is the only choice as this will let you shoot at faster speeds. The optimum optics for most lenses is 2 stops down from wide open, and while many will be using macro lenses, then shooting as closed down as you can will give more depth of field-ie more in focus Unless you are using almost semi pro 'off camera' flash gear then I think the outcomes aren't as successful. I also go by the rationale that fish are top lit in nature. http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/f ... z/?start=0

Watch your scarlet with the tankmates to start off, as they are quite shy and retiring, particularly at juvinile size. the fact they eat meat doesn't correspond to the aggression level, your royal at the moment will be by far the most dominant. It will be a while before the scarlets here are of the size to be a problem. There is an almost black variety as well, although L24 is the one which I'd really like colourwise. I see that 2 x24cm scarlets were bred to a two foot tank in the last few weeks in Japan. That economy of scale for you.