Fish Food Importation discussion

[smidey]

nah just what ever taxs the US has on theirs

[smidey]

the info i just found says the US has a Sales tax of anywhere from 1 to 16% depending on item and state.

[Adrienne]

i'm sure it's the wholesalers prices that are the issue but what ever the case it will never make sense to me to spend almost double to "buy local". You can't seriously think it's better to pay $200 for one bucket or $220 for two?

My opinion has nothing to do with the prices, a question was asked and I gave the answer.

However I do feel strongly about this sort of discussion on here - it should be conducted through pm's. Promoting undercutting the very shops that bring in the fish we purchase will not benefit any one.

[camtang]

Dont we promote undercutting shops when people sell fish privatly? or when we give each other tips on natural remadies to fix stuff insteed of going and buying off the shelf products

[hovmoller]

However I do feel strongly about this sort of discussion on here - it should be conducted through pm's.

That sounds an aweful lot like we are not allowed to discuss this because it doesn't conform with your opinion.

No one is doing anything unlawful here.

[smidey]

However I do feel strongly about this sort of discussion on here - it should be conducted through pm's. Promoting undercutting the very shops that bring in the fish we purchase will not benefit any one.

those are your feelings and there are plenty of us that have different feelings. what is wrong with discussing it openly? your feelings could lead to price fixing, is that what you want?

If i was HFF i would take what information i could to improve my store and there is plenty here for them with regard to NLS. I would be seeking cheaper sources of NLS if i was them so they can offer a better priced product so we can spend our money with them because that is the only issue, high pricing. This is basic retail competition, just one of the players in not in the same country and fortunately for the consumer is easily used. Pet stores on the same street have differing prices for items, what is the difference?

We simply pay to much for imported goods in NZ and we have found a way to save money, i still can't see why it should be our "dirty little secret".

[F15hguy]

it seems to me that this discussion is not only about fish food though, in general we have been overcharged for just about everything for ages, I can buy a bottle fo Marlborough wine in England for equivilent NZ$10, Australia NZ$12, and here I have to pay $25 for it, same with clothing, cheaper to bring in from US or Aussie tnah buy here, heck check out the current Broadband ad on TV, Hungary is 1/2 our prices for broadband. I personally feel that in general We have been taken for a ride for a bit long. :sage:

but strangely enough from what I have seen from wholesalers lists (not just pet industry), its not the stores that are the problem (well not ALL stores)

[blueether]

If you are paying $200 from a local shop thet that is some $45 more that what I have found the price in NZ to be from a Bricks & Mortar shop. So $130 with no GST imported or $155 inc GST, not too bad a comparison, but should be a little cheaper as they should have better bulk shipping.

[Sheepsnana]

That sounds an aweful lot like we are not allowed to discuss this because it doesn't conform with your opinion.

No one is doing anything unlawful here.

those are your feelings and there are plenty of us that have different feelings. what is wrong with discussing it openly? your feelings could lead to price fixing, is that what you want?

We simply pay to much for imported goods in NZ and we have found a way to save money, i still can't see why it should be our "dirty little secret".

I don't think that you realise the bigger picture here. HFF supply us with a lot more than just NLS. We are not saying bow down to HFF and buy it from them, but the Federation is definitely not going to slap them in the face by encouraging people to import stuff themselves.

Of course you may be able to import it cheaper. That's a given: You don't have staff, rent, power, GST, etc that goes with running a business.

One day you may find something that HFF was stocking for you that you can't just import yourself.

[smidey]

I don't think that you realise the bigger picture here. HFF supply us with a lot more than just NLS. We are not saying bow down to HFF and buy it from them, but the Federation is definitely not going to slap them in the face by encouraging people to import stuff themselves.

i totally realise the bigger picture and i am well aware of what they supply as i have bought plenty from them in the past. So why would it matter that we buy NLS from an offshore supplier as HFF supply so much more than that? it wasn't that long ago that it wasn't available here. They have taken on the supply but cannot supply at a price that competes with alternative suppliers so why should we not use more cost effective options and why should others not now about that? as i have said before, i am all for local business but at double the price you are not thinking straight.

this forum is not the federations views, it's ours so i cannot see how the federation is slapping them in the face. this is a forum and that generates different views, opinions and ways of doing things to be shared, what's the problem? there will always be different opinions on this, that is reality.

Of course you may be able to import it cheaper. That's a given: You don't have staff, rent, power, GST, etc that goes with running a business.

exactly, i don't but the business i bought it from does and i paid a sales tax in the US to. The stuff doesn't magically get downloaded through some computer program, the order needs to be processed, packed and shipped. The stock needs to be ordered, received, unpacked......... i bought it from a business!

One day you may find something that HFF was stocking for you that you can't just import yourself.

as above i have bought plenty of items from them, heaters, bubble filters, a lot of NLS and some light tubes i think. This is not about HFF and they way they operate and i'm sure if you read previous posts then you'll see i have given my view that it's not their fault that the price of it is what it is. I'm not really interested in why, who or where the big markups are coming in but i can source it significantly cheaper elsewhere so i do so as that is my choice and my money. If the prices here were similar i wouldn't bother importing it.

[Sheepsnana]

In stead of quoting the previous post, I'll just reply:

This forum is hosted by... oh, that's right, the Federation. I understand that this is a forum, and that different views will always be brought up, but our mods get a lot of crap thrown at them over discussions like this. I am in no way saying that the Federation will stop you posting, but I think out of courtesy you could keep discussions about undercutting our local businesses to a PM system.

I understand that it is not magically downloaded, but I was pointing out that HFF is a business with a lot more expenses than you. THEY have extra costs that you don't, and part of the price difference will be to cover these costs.

If you are so sure that you can source it cheaper, have you considered discussing this with HFF? It may be that they need to contact their supplier. If they have a specific license as the only local reseller, and the supplier is exporting to others, there may be a big problem there for HFF to address. That, and they should talk to their supplier about better bulk rates if you can get it in cheaper.

I understand that you like half price product (who wouldn't?) but encouraging people to bypass the local supplier, regardless of your reasons, IS SCREWING THEM OVER.

[Godly3vil]

Oh yes, I am sure that is exactly what he is doing, SCREWING THEM OVER. What a joke and a reason for people not to look at cheaper and more cost effective ways of purchasing a product that is in limited availability here. The reason HFF can charge alot more than overseas is that in NZ our selection of any aquarium related products is rediculously small and they hold the monopoly on NLS range of food as far as I am aware. In this tough economy we all are looking at ways to save money and importing your own food is a great way to do it and is certainly worth it it seems. Especially as we can't import our own stock and plants anymore.

[smidey]

In stead of quoting the previous post, I'll just reply:

This forum is hosted by... oh, that's right, the Federation. I understand that this is a forum, and that different views will always be brought up, but our mods get a lot of crap thrown at them over discussions like this. I am in no way saying that the Federation will stop you posting, but I think out of courtesy you could keep discussions about undercutting our local businesses to a PM system.

what does this mean, does HFF own the federationor had teh federation vowed to protect them at all costs? ahahahah

I understand that it is not magically downloaded, but I was pointing out that HFF is a business with a lot more expenses than you. THEY have extra costs that you don't, and part of the price difference will be to cover these costs.

what are you thinking, my costs???? i am the consumer not seller??? i buy the NLS from a business just like HFF but with an accent!!!!!

If you are so sure that you can source it cheaper, have you considered discussing this with HFF? It may be that they need to contact their supplier. If they have a specific license as the only local reseller, and the supplier is exporting to others, there may be a big problem there for HFF to address. That, and they should talk to their supplier about better bulk rates if you can get it in cheaper.

what do you mean sure? i have three empty buckets that i have bought and used. You can buy it yourself with a few clicks of a button and a credit card just like on HFF site.

I understand that you like half price product (who wouldn't?) but encouraging people to bypass the local supplier, regardless of your reasons, IS SCREWING THEM OVER.

it's called retail competition.

look at it this way, because of where i am i buy off websites. I can order from one website and it will cost me $130 for a bucket delivered. I can order it from another website (HFF) and it costs me near $170 delivered, pretty easy choice IMO.

In this age of the interweb local or nearest retailer does not always mean geographically and it is also very easy to find the best deals. If HFF can get there prices near what we can get if elsewhere i will buy from them, until then i won't.

Another thought, if the source i get it from were to donate to this site and advertise here would that be ok. Or if another retailer in NZ got a good supply price and could offer the buckets for $130, would that be ok for them to advertise that or is it just HFF who have the rights here?

[smidey]

i buy two buckets at a time. From the US it costs me around $220 delivered to my door for TWO BUCKETS. That will cost around $330 to buy locally. I am buying the buckets at retail pricing, paying tax in the US and having them delivered half way round the world.

tell me again i should buy local?? i will buy local, when the locals can offer competitive pricing.

[camtang]

i will buy local, when the locals can offer competitive pricing.

+1

[F15hguy]

fair enough, hopefully HFF is reading this and can maybe chime in with an answer or a reason why not....

[Caryl]

I would like to remind you all that this is the wanted to buy section and the original posted asked a simple question..."as above does anyone who buys in bulk have any for sale please". The first answer was "yes, HFF has it". I am sure if anyone else had it they would have also replied, either in the thread or via PM and the question was answered.

If you wish to discuss the pros and cons of buying locally or overseas, please do so in another thread.

tjc I apologise your original post has been taken over :-?

[Warren]

The point everyone is missing here in their stampeeded rush to try to expose Hollywood's as ripping everyone off is this;

When importing for personal use you do not have to pay the fees to the required authorities for the permits and tests to legally resell an imported food item. These fees are considerable and given New Zealands tiny population and tiny market these fees add significantly to the retail price.

If you want to import food for personal use fine, do it. You just can't on-sell anything you've imported to anyone else without the same testing and permits Hollywood's (or any other importer) has. Before you continue to complain about the price of anything in any retail shop you really should be fully informed about all the costs involved in the industry before pointing the finger at anyone for profiteering. If you can actually prove they're profiteering then by all means let us know. However, if you are just assuming you are being ripped off because you don't like the price then don't slate the retailer until you've done your research. When you add in all the costs you'll find the price is actually very fair.

This has nothing at all to do with Hollywoods specifically, it has 100% to do with the regulations anyone who wants to resell food products it NZ has to comply with whether private or a business.

May I suggest in the future people who want to complain about any price do their research first.

You should also find out if you are allowed to sell something before advertising it on this website (or any other website) or giving information to others about where to buy it. It's your responsibility to know and you need to check the regulations before you do it. Saying you didn't know will not help you when the authorities come knocking at your door - just like fishing quotas, it's your responsibility to know what your size limits and daily fish counts are (MAF won't care if you didn't check)...

[smidey]

Warren, can you split this into another thread so we don't go against caryls request?

how much do the permits cost? surely they aren't enough to increase a US retail price of $50USD to $128USD ($156NZD) here. I don't think this thread is saying HFF are ripping us off is it? i thought it read as the price of NLS being over the top but not directly blaming HFF.

Personally I don't think that HFF are the cause of such an enormous price in comparison to the US prices, my pick is the wholesale rates they are given but where ever it happens it is. But at the end of the day, whoever took on the supply of NLS or any other product for that matter, will struggle to move the goods if the rates are too high especially with the ease of purchase from other countries the internet gives us. in any retail situation, most of the customers will be after sensible pricing in comparison.

What ever the cause it is consistent with most imported products. Everything i buy i check the price overseas if i can and everything except teng tools is so much cheaper overseas. maybe as consumers move toward buying from overseas due to price variation, they will review their markups. here's hoping anyway.

[Warren]

I think you should do the research - it's not that difficult. Then you will find the permit costs are very high. You will also find that each individual food type also has to be registered. The cost gets very high very quickly.

There's no need to split as the people who need to know are mostly reading this thread. There will be further information added to the site shortly to help.

[F15hguy]

unfortunately being a source of govt revenue I don't think this will change soon, the recent publicity regarding the biosecurity of nz will more likely increase the amount things will cost. IMO it should be more expensive for a small amount coming over the border than a larger amount.

[alanmin4304]

What I find a bit strange is that an individual can import a decent sized pail of fish food without the need for registration or certification but a commercial entity has to pay so much extra for all the paper work. The risks (of disease spread,pests or controlled substances) being present is the same in one container as it is in 100 containers.

[F15hguy]

if anything it is higher risk for the small consumer as with the large importer there is the paper trail to find where it all went

and lets be honest im sure a few people are using this loop hole (probably not on NLS) for profit, I know I can easily purchase cosmetics for less than $1 per item with $0.05 per item shipping, if I purchase $399 worth of it, I don't have to worry about duty, taxes etc.... (BTW will be some nice cosmetics available for cheap at Tauranga markets this year :slfg: )

[Jennifer]

I just had this discussion split as I feel it is a fair and civil discussion and it is not out of bounds of the rules. The Federation's stance is that we do not wish to be heavy handed with moderating this forum and thus we encourage civil debate of relevant issues.

Regarding some issues brought up in this thread, I feel I need to clarify some things. The Federation has no financial incentive at all from any local businesses but it is one of our primary goals to support local fishkeeping and in doing that, we need to encourage the shops to thrive by recommending any and all local shops to our members.

Advertisement from any source is considered without bias.

Comments from executives on this forum are their own opinion unless otherwise stated as an official FNZAS position statement.

With regard to on-selling of food, I have been informed by MPI that on-selling of food is illegal over a certain limit (a commercial seller must have a permit from their local city council). The FNZAS is not in the position to police illegal activity, and we also cannot be seen to condone illegal activity on the forums therefore if we are alerted to illegal activity on the forums, we will take other steps as needed to address the offending member and will provide evidence to the authorities as asked.

So, if you think you may be doing something illegal, you may want to keep discussions to yourselves. Otherwise, feel free to keep the debate going and enjoy the forums. :thup:

[smidey]

I think you should do the research - it's not that difficult. Then you will find the permit costs are very high. You will also find that each individual food type also has to be registered. The cost gets very high very quickly.

this is an interesting discussion that i think needs to be had.

at the end of the day it won't change anything so i'm not going to bother. I'm not really interested in at what point or why the costs are excessive, the reality is they are. Again, if the prices are reduced to be comparable to what it costs me to get it from the US, which includes the freights costs then i will buy from HFF. If not i won't as it is no harder to order from the US, i just takes a few more days to get here.