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Optimising plant growth and minimising algae


Jennifer

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These are the instructions that Jen sent me.

If I can understand them anyone can :D

You can order bulk dry ferts from Stocker. They usually run between $12-15 per kilo. http://www.hydroponics.co.nz/ You can order online but I recommend phoning them and asking for exactly what you want.

Order these:

Potassium Nitrate (KN03)

Monopotassium Phosphate (KH2P04)

To make a liquid macro fert solution that will achieve close to the above target ranges, add:

264g KNO3

57.6g KH2PO4

2L ordinary water

These will give you a complete macronutrient solution of potassium, nitrate and phosphate in the correct ratios. The dose rate for the above solution is 1ml solution per 10L of tank water. Obviously, if you have only large tanks you can make a more concentrated solution so that the volume that you dose each day is less, but the amount of ferts will be the same. You can also add just the dry ferts.

So, every other day (or three times a week) do the following:

Macros (NPK)

Micros (trace minerals, etc.)

Iron

In addition, once a week do a 50% water change (this is essential for 'resetting' the system). After the water change, add a GH booster (e.g. magnesium sulfate/epsom salts) at a rate of 3/4 tsp per 200L of tank water. This provides essential magnesium and allows the plants to uptake nutrients.

I find my tank takes more than the minimum dose of nitrates when the plant biomass increases. If you get green spot, increase the phosphate, if you get green dust, increase the nitrates and CO2, if you get BBA, increase the CO2. If you get hair algae, you have too much light for the CO2 and nutrients you are providing. It may take a week or more to fine tune as the plants start accelerating in growth.

The CO2 provides the carbon source but you can also use Excel and a liquid carbon source if your CO2 suddenly runs out.

Light is the limiting factor so in other words, when the lights are on, the plants grow optimally and the algae can't take over. If the lights are on too long, the plants will use up the nutrients and leave behind whatever they can't use - algae is not fussy about what nutrients they use so they can quickly take over in that environment. Aim for an 8 hour photoperiod. Turn the CO2 on one hour before the lights go on and turn it off one hour before the lights go off. You can also get a CO2 test, drop checker or something similar to ensure your CO2 levels are optimum. If the plants aren't pearling a lot, they might not be growing optimally.

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:D:hail:

One thing to keep in mind, those instructions are for a high tech tank. If you have a low tech tank, things will be very different. Also, water circulation, stocking, substrate fertilisers and water hardness play a factor with regard to the dosing schedule.

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:wink: Answer the following:

Dimensions & volume of tank

Lighting

Substrate

Plants

Fish stocking

Goals - What you want from the tank, amount of time you have to maintain it, approximate budget you want to spend on it

Dimensions & volume of tank: Height 57cm. Width 60cm. depth 37. AR620T Like this

Lighting: Stock 2x 18w fluro, and 2x 20inch 20w power glo t8's

Substrate: black gravel from HFF about 50mm deep all round

Plants: Massive Amazon Sword, lots of Java Fern, Dwarf sag?? grass. Getting rid of the repens soon and going with something p44 recommended

Fish stocking: 2 juvenile Discus, 13 cardinal tetras, 1 electric blue ram, 2 adult bristlenoses

Goals: NO ALGAE, and a lush health tank. Currently after about 3 days the glass gets a green spray paint like algae all over it.

CO2: I have a Fluval 88g co2 setup at around 1bubble per second, and all my plants are pearling like you wouldn't believe

Filtration: Aqua One CF1200, and a UV filter.

Currently I am dosing with PMDD off trademe at around 6 drops daily.

I don't mind spending a few hundred on lighting and other bits if I can get something that will work for my tank, and look nice. the lights need to be able to be raised up off the tank about 30-50mm to let the have the filter tubing go over the tank rim.

Pics:

zptinzkm.jpg

yoafrnvm.jpg

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Dimensions & volume of tank: Height 57cm. Width 60cm. depth 37. AR620T Like this

Lighting: Stock 2x 18w fluro, and 2x 20inch 20w power glo t8's

Substrate: black gravel from HFF about 50mm deep all round

Plants: Massive Amazon Sword, lots of Java Fern, Dwarf sag?? grass. Getting rid of the repens soon and going with something p44 recommended

Fish stocking: 2 juvenile Discus, 13 cardinal tetras, 1 electric blue ram, 2 adult bristlenoses

Goals: NO ALGAE, and a lush health tank. Currently after about 3 days the glass gets a green spray paint like algae all over it.

CO2: I have a Fluval 88g co2 setup at around 1bubble per second, and all my plants are pearling like you wouldn't believe

Filtration: Aqua One CF1200, and a UV filter.

Currently I am dosing with PMDD off trademe at around 6 drops daily.

I don't mind spending a few hundred on lighting and other bits if I can get something that will work for my tank, and look nice. the lights need to be able to be raised up off the tank about 30-50mm to let the have the filter tubing go over the tank rim.

Sounds like Green spot algae (GSA) or Green dust algae (GDA)

Reduce photoperiod

Increase nutrients

Dose with liquid carbon daily

Check your flow around the tank, all plants should be swaying gently like in a breeze.

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Reduce photoperiod

Increase nutrients

Dose with liquid carbon daily

Check your flow around the tank, all plants should be swaying gently like in a breeze.

I am actually getting me a powerhead this week as there isn't enough water movement, I was looking at getting two, one high, and one low, the lower one to help shift detrius from the gravel. I admit I leave my lights on for FAR to long, as in 8am till 10 pm. I will get a timer while I'm at it. 8 hours enough? Liquid carbon and co2 injection?

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I am actually getting me a powerhead this week as there isn't enough water movement, I was looking at getting two, one high, and one low, the lower one to help shift detrius from the gravel. I admit I leave my lights on for FAR to long, as in 8am till 10 pm. I will get a timer while I'm at it. 8 hours enough? Liquid carbon and co2 injection?

8 hours should be o.k. Is your CO2 on a timer? Do you have a drop checker?

Liquid carbon and CO2 injection is fine.

Stirring up the bottom of the tank without a water change could be a problem..... ammonia spike.

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8 hours should be o.k. Is your CO2 on a timer? Do you have a drop checker?

Liquid carbon and CO2 injection is fine.

Stirring up the bottom of the tank without a water change could be a problem..... ammonia spike.

Agreed. Theoretically, you can add more nutrients to accommodate the increased photoperiod but the plants won't necessarily do any better. In fact, some plants, like ambulia, have an internal clock and will actually shut down/close up after a certain time in the light. An 8 hour photoperiod should be just fine to start with. In fact, in optimal conditions, the plants will grow like wild in only a handful of hours a day.

I have an 8 hour photoperiod on my big tank and still sometimes get green dust algae if I forget to dose for one day! The problem is easily solved by scraping it off the glass and getting back to the fert schedule. :wink:

If you are getting pearling, I would guess that your lighting is sufficient and you have a good amount of CO2. You don't really need to add liquid carbon unless your CO2 is fluctuating.

With regard to the dosing, PMDD is a combination of macros and micros. You can check to see if you are reaching optimal levels by checking nitrates and phosphates with a test kit. A CO2 drop checker is a good thing to have as well to see if you are reaching optimal levels (although don't count on it in terms of safety for the livestock since the changes are too slow to show up a sudden crisis).

is there anyone with experience doing this with a low tech tank yet?

I'm keen to try it but I don't want my tank to be a guinea pig :)

Tom Barr is a big lover of low tech tanks. They are easy to run with the EI method. The lowest tech tanks are as follows: Infrequent dosing, low light, low stocking, rare water changes, no carbon supplement. The theory is to provide just enough nutrients for the tank to use up in a week or so. Water changes should be small and infrequent so that CO2 fluctuations are minimal. If you get algae, turn down the lights/photoperiod. Test the nitrates/phosphates periodically to see if the plants are using it up as planned

If you take one step up and add a stronger light and carbon supplement and you will see the growth increasing so you need to dose more frequently and do regular water changes.

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The lowest tech tanks are as follows: Infrequent dosing, low light, low stocking, rare water changes, no carbon supplement. The theory is to provide just enough nutrients for the tank to use up in a week or so. Water changes should be small and infrequent so that CO2 fluctuations are minimal. If you get algae, turn down the lights/photoperiod. Test the nitrates/phosphates periodically to see if the plants are using it up as planned

This I've been doing since you recommended it in the fishkeepers thread. I dose flourish maybe once a fortnight and have been taking 4 litres out of 32 for a water change weekly. Lights are on 5-6 hours and the tank is very dim at other times, there is very little natural light in the room. I haven't seen any abatement in the brown wooly thread algae, but I notice that it only appears on the ambulia and the oldest strands of moss and dwarf chain sword. The crypts, val and lotus all have root fertilisers but I gather the other 3 must take their nutrients from the water column and maybe aren't getting enough so are therefore weaker so get the algae?? It hasn't abated but it also hasn't gotten worse.

Water parameters for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate seem the same, maybe slightly less nitrate. I will get the phospates tested next. I'm not keen to increase the lighting until I've seen how this low tech way pans out over a longer term.

I think it's been long enough that I can change something else now, do you think less water change amount, ie 2 litres, or 4 litres only every fortnight?

And another question - where do you measure the colour of the test tube? In one book it said to look straight down the tube from top to bottom, other info suggests comparing the colour of the tube long ways to the colour on the card is right. If it's the latter then the nitrate has never been over 10ppm, the other way is slightly more intense red.

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How you measure the colour depends on the test kit.

API you hold the tube up to the side of the card and look at the side of the tube, JBL you sit the tube on top of the card and look down, Salifert is the from the top as well, and Sera I cannot tell you because I only have a KH kit and all you are looking for is a colour change, but I suspect they are from the top as well because the diameter of the tube/test vial is larger giving a less concentrated view, whereas the API ones are narrower than a standard test tube.

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The crypts, val and lotus all have root fertilisers but I gather the other 3 must take their nutrients from the water column and maybe aren't getting enough so are therefore weaker so get the algae??
That is exactly right.

If it's the latter then the nitrate has never been over 10ppm...
You might consider increasing the nitrates to 20ppm and test it after a week to see where you are at, you may need to dose weekly. try not to change anything else until you see if that works or not.
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How you measure the colour depends on the test kit.

Thanks, that's good news for me, my kit is API and the results look much more flattering through the side of the tube :wink:

With the kH test - on the 3rd drop it goes yellow and then straight back to blue, do I count that one or the next one where it goes a sort of grubby yellow/blueish?

That is exactly right.

This is partly why I didn't want stem plants, in both of my tanks they have either grown too fast or unhappily and that's why I went for the retrospiralis crypt so I had a long leafed skinny something in the back ground. What I need is some long twisted val so I can swap out some ambulia... or a balansae crypt, though I believe it needs more light than I have to give it.

You might consider increasing the nitrates to 20ppm and test it after a week to see where you are at, you may need to dose weekly. try not to change anything else until you see if that works or not.

How would you suggest to increase nitrate safely and slowly? There is not great circulation, the only plants that sway are the ones in front of the filter.

I still have flourish comp and some florapride. Could also drop the water change off as I mentioned earlier.

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How would you suggest to increase nitrate safely and slowly? There is not great circulation, the only plants that sway are the ones in front of the filter. I still have flourish comp and some florapride. Could also drop the water change off as I mentioned earlier.

The difference between 10ppm and 20ppm is small and it is well below the level at which fish will be affected. Seachem Flourish makes a liquid Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosphate. Since you just have a small tank, that might be one option for you to accurately dose your tank. I do wonder if your plants aren't able to use the available ferts fast enough. Many of the plant gurus say that one of the biggest problems is not having the plant biomass to combat algae, that is why stem plants can be good - because they grow quickly so algae can't.

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Hey Jen (and others) Can I get a little help with my tank....

Dimensions & volume of tank - 100l Blue Panet Kingdom - 65cmLong x36cm Wide x45cmHigh

Lighting - T5 18w 6400K Red & T5 18w 10000 White

Substrate - Daltons Aquatic Mix & Black Silica Sand

Plants - Green Lotus, Red Lotus, Anubius nana, Dwarf Sag, Aponogeton, Enchinodorus parvifloris tropica, retrospirils & amazonicus, Cryptocoryne walkeri, undulatus, petchii, balansae, & wendtii. Figured that if anything got too big I could just pull it out.

Fish stocking - x3 Oto's x13 Male Guppies and WAY too many GBA's & Trumpet snails!

Ferts - currently using JBL Balls, Sera C02 tabs on alternate days. I do have Flourish Excel, Potassium, Iron and Comprehensive but haven't been using them since adding all the crypts.

Goals - to have a fully planted tank that the GBA's will enjoy and required little maintenance - weeding that is - water changes aren't a prob, I do them weekly.

Problems - Green Lotus taking over! and everything else seems to be growing slowly (red lotus seems to be doing better since I added a load more plants! Even got a pup from it!)

Way too many trumpet snails

I am unsure what ferts to use and how often. Anubius seems to be developing big brown spots on leaves (only a couple) Green algae on the some of the leaves of the parvifloris. I did have some green thread algae but that seems to have gone after I removed it manually and not returned?

Any advice would be greatly accepted :happy2: Thanks

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Hey Jen (and others) Can I get a little help with my tank....

Dimensions & volume of tank - 100l Blue Panet Kingdom - 65cmLong x36cm Wide x45cmHigh

Lighting - T5 18w 6400K Red & T5 18w 10000 White

Substrate - Daltons Aquatic Mix & Black Silica Sand

Plants - Green Lotus, Red Lotus, Anubius nana, Dwarf Sag, Aponogeton, Enchinodorus parvifloris tropica, retrospirils & amazonicus, Cryptocoryne walkeri, undulatus, petchii, balansae, & wendtii. Figured that if anything got too big I could just pull it out.

Fish stocking - x3 Oto's x13 Male Guppies and WAY too many GBA's & Trumpet snails!

Ferts - currently using JBL Balls, Sera C02 tabs on alternate days. I do have Flourish Excel, Potassium, Iron and Comprehensive but haven't been using them since adding all the crypts.

Goals - to have a fully planted tank that the GBA's will enjoy and required little maintenance - weeding that is - water changes aren't a prob, I do them weekly.

Problems - Green Lotus taking over! and everything else seems to be growing slowly (red lotus seems to be doing better since I added a load more plants! Even got a pup from it!)

Way too many trumpet snails

I am unsure what ferts to use and how often. Anubius seems to be developing big brown spots on leaves (only a couple) Green algae on the some of the leaves of the parvifloris. I did have some green thread algae but that seems to have gone after I removed it manually and not returned?

Any advice would be greatly accepted :happy2: Thanks

Firstly some questions

Photoperiod?

Filtration?

How much excel are you dosing?

I see you are adding Potassium but what about the other macros?

Sounds like you have plenty of plants.... That's a good start :wink:

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