i have done quite a lot of research on pterophyllum in their natural habitat and would like to see a report on finding and catching a strain of marble angels in the wild.

not doubting anyones veracity but would be interested for a reference

Dont forget about zebra lace angels :roll: :lol:

thanks mystic

so "w" wild type has no gene for marble or gold and marble is a gene first produced in aquariums

that is how i understand the marble gene in pterophyllum

Thanks MV and LA

Dixon, I have had dealings with the seller before, he does import a lot and has a lot of experience, I was surprised to see an auction from him be questioned, you have sparked my interest however and I would have to agree, after trawling the internet and any books I have it seems he has got it wrong, I too can find nothing on a "wild" marble angel.

this is what I love about this forum, i'm always learning new things.

keep up the good work...

there have been reports of captive bred fish being introduced into the wild population

Yes saw those angels, guess it is another to add to the long list of dodgy things that seller would do to make a buck, some things never change.

Trademe cracks me up they will do nothing about these auctions, but I guess trademe are not fish experts so how are they to know the fish are pure etc?

There is a person still selling those hybrid asti. C in Christchurch they are well aware they are hybrids but have no intention of doing the right thing. I have no problem with anyone selling anything even if it is dodgy just don't give them a pure name and rip people off in the process, if its dodgy then say so and then people know.

Some people think it is all way OTT and people are just being annoying but if any incorrectly named fish gets passed on and bred from it dilutes the gene pool of both the fish it has been correctly named as and whatever fish it may be. Someone may buy this dodgy "p82" get some real p82 females and then create a mess which will continue to be passed on as p82 then we have the potential to loose a species in NZ. Unfortunately this person wont have a bar of the (must I say very diplomatically worded) questions that have been added to the auction, maybe someone should link them to this thread?

Yes saw those angels, guess it is another to add to the long list of dodgy things that seller would do to make a buck, some things never change.

The worst thing is, i think he actually thinks you can get marbles in the wild :lol:

I tried to link TM to this thread but as I had already logged a report, it wouldnt allow me to do it.

Likewise, the seller has banned me which I find quite funny as I simply wanted to help them as all in know, I will try to help anyone at all

What Barrie said.

I would rather help The seller of the angels by giving them the correct names to put on his auctions, but he would rather sell them incorrectly with the wrong information.

there have been reports of captive bred fish being introduced into the wild population

I did read somewhere that a scientist had a large collection of angels in peru and the river broke its banks and washed them all away releasing them into the wild.

I think that is how the altum got to peru.

this guy is at it again

Listing #: 234930391

This is not a P82

it looks like a Fund. Gardneri aquarium strain

P82's look similar to this

as you can see this has a lot more blue

This persons fish is gold

I have 3 of those pretty boys - the blue Gardneri, that is

Both P82's and the Blues are almost identical so its even more important to keep them seperate

Are you breeding them?

Nope, mine are definitely blue though (as pictured) - not P82s.

I cant tell the difference between the 2 even when side by side in twin tanks.

Who did you get them from if you dont mind me asking as most of the better breeders would know their own fish.

I have thought about getting rid of the Blues so there is no mix up but the way do things leaves no chance for a mixup anyway. Every tank is labled and blues are never in the same tank as P82. Females are never ever placed with any other female

Here's a pic of mine, you're right they are very similar - I googled the P82 and it looked like it had bigger spots but I see some are the same size as the blues.

The seller described them as blues, her name is Karen.

I resaved as 640 pixels wide and it still won't upload.

Can't post a pic, the image size is too big apparently when it's only 54kb...?

the image size is relevant as well

Image Size:

Images linked to the site in your personal posts need to be a maximum of 640 x 480 or 480 x 640 pixels and no larger than 128kB.

Posts into the members tank area require moderator approval so do not be alarmed if your post does not show right away.

the Blue is the Aquarium strain so your safe with that anyway

P82 is the pure wild collected strain so that is the one that needs to be kept even more pure if that makes sense

The Blues came about with a traffic accident around the desert rd and some fish became mixed (I think) so the killi people could not be sure of the purety and hence the lable Blue and Aquarium strain

Im sure that the Killi specie controller will pick up on this and correct me if Im wrong

While I support and agree Barrie's argument I would like to make a point.

The people who already care are on FNZAS and NZKA membership.

Seeing as you care so much would it not me more productive to be promoting these two clubs to inform the few other people in the community who care too.

I am not surprised TradeMe doesn't care about two strains of a small fish being mislabeled, when the EXPERTS can't tell them apart sitting side by side.

Perhaps a new tangent is needed.

The comparison in here was inbetween P82's and Blues

The thread started with the miss nameing of P82's and Gardneri Aquarium strain

If you look at the photos, you will see the difference.

P82 has orange tips to the lower fins and has a deep blue body

The Gardneri has a thin white line on the lower fins and is a very pale yellow/steel colour in the body

The Gardnrei will not get much bigger than 55mm but the P82 will get 65mm

Hope this explains.

The confusion has come about as the thread has "elvolved"

i thought the f. gardneri gardneri's were blue/green too, and not that yellow colour that the one in the auction is? Or are there albino ones that are golden?

also, are the species picks at killi.co.uk reasonably accurate? Thats usually where i look first for info on each species...

yes that site is accurate but maybe if I put a list of Fundulopanchax that we have here in NZ it may help

Note that we dont have Gardneri Gardneri here

Fund. gardneri albino

Fund.gardneri aquarium (we call these gardneri Blues as well)

Fund. nigeranuis gold

Fund nigerianus jos plateau

Fund nigerianus P82

Fund scheeli

Fund. sjoestedti

The first thing you should do is get Killis from a member of the club if you are planning on breeding them. Listen and write down the name for future reference.

If you dont plan on breeding them, simply call them fred or jane, it simply wont matter but dont look at overseas sites and try to guess what you have from those photos.

A heck of a lot of Killis look very similar and its easy to miss a marking that may be the difference between two seperate specie

Im starting to confuse my self now and have deleted part of what I had written

now i'm just more confused trying to match those names to pics

i'll have to come to the killie thing at napier next year

Also is there anywhere with information on which species (if any) of killies can't crossbreed with each other? I'd to have a few types in a display tank, but i had it impressed on me from the breeder of the first ones i got that you never risk ruining a strain by mixing them so i've kept them all seperate. I know the annual and non-annuals can't breed, but i'm not keen on trying the annuals yet, and my favourites are the fund and aphy species which i think can all crossbred?

I mix males that can be easily told apart