firenzenz

Still sounds better than; "Order of Merit New Zealand" you Livingart!!!

As you know I have some Chilumba red Flush I bought a male 5yrs ago and was my first peacock from Janztens and at the insistence of a mate I bought the other two. At $90.00 per fish i thought this was madness. A couple of years ago someone for either Kudos or purely money sold off quite a few hybrids named as Chilumba red Flush and within mths there were many disgruntled people out there and No one would trust any red Flush. Since then I have bred 3 generations of these fish and sold none. I have given two set of fry away to other people as "controls" and those have gone on to breed true. Are they Bonafide Aulonocara red flush?- I can't guarantee that although they were imported as that, and no other "post importation common name" has been designated and through time and logical processes I know that this fish at least of pure strain, and thats the best I can do. If it were about money, my $270.00 would have been far better off getting 5% per annum at the bank. But I wouldn't have these guys.

I think you are talking at a level that most aren't going to connect with. Line breeding and and Specific Hybrids like Parrots, Flowerhorn etc at the educated and scientific end of the scale. I think the msg here has more to do with the unfortunate situation of hybridising genus that have many species variant's, perhaps even location variations and are easily bred. This is most evident in many of the African cichlids. Often in that situation hybrids can indeed be a good looking fish and that can ultimately impact on the few true lines around, or be an excuse for some people to pass them off for something they are not.

Add to that the natural desire of people to have something a little Exotic and rare in their tanks. This can result in fish being elevated to heights that their poor little Hybridised body can hardly bare. Add to that the few who through ignorance, greed or pure and simple selfish bullheaded refuse to play the game. IF IN DOUBT, THEN YOU ARE PROBABLY RIGHT TO HAVE DOUBT. No one is going to get F1 varietals for $8.00 in NZ

Talk to the retailer then and complain about the crazy mark up they put on them. They are now been locally bred ( only in the last 9 mths ) and retailers are buying the zebs at way less than that but know they can historically charge those prices. If they were not being locally bred they wouldn't even be in that shop due to export/import regs. I'd be buying 6 juvis like Jamos for $200-$250 rather than a definite larger female for the same price, and eventually breed my own as long as I realise that I'm yrs away from breeding and by that time, they may have greatly reduced in price, but thanks to someone who spent megabucks on them yrs ago I had the chance.

"Aint nothing like a Damn"

So NZD$200 each. Throw in Freight, customs and quarantine costs, allow for attrition in those proces will give you a fish the wholesalers will want at least $450.00 per fish to make the whole thing worth their while which makes them a "Grand" retail. Or would the importer keep them as a group for the 2 yrs to get to breeding age and then sell offspring? Forget the rumours- they aren't almost here. They are still not allowed as far as ERMA is concerned.

Ask Jamos- He probably saw dozens of them when he bought those ones. The thing is that They aren't like bristlenoses where they will breed "in a Bucket" at 1 yr old. Jamos's two fish came from a group of 270's that were grown up for 3 yrs and his are 2-21/2 yrs away from breedable age, he will certainly need more than those two to get some type of 2-3 yr project to get dozens of babies in his tanks. The Hypans and other plecs in Aussie aren't officially allowed there( L46 was smuggled there from here 10yrs ago), and the price for fancy plecs there is way more than here. Even if the zebs here breed in large numbers they will still command high prices.

L 270 is hypancistrus species and will require proteins. Feeding something like shrimp pellets, feed bloodworm and vege ( they love peas) every now and then. mix of rock and wood hidey holes.

Very Nice! Lovely condition and colour for that size. Are you going to get more and build up a breeding group?

Sajica's same genus as con's but better colout IMO. 6-10 larger tetras like columbians/penquins to put up with cichlids Some cory's or/and plec( maybe GBa for colour). and a blue dempsey as show fish. contenders also Rainbows loaches

As above your volume of water is OK but perhaps with a 3ft of 4ft tank would be better. Ramp up the temp also to 27-28 degrees and make sure you have lots of cave hidey hole option. Once they decide to spawn they will nail the sajica.

Dude!- you are a danger! What if I told you that they are very common but L169 is very rare?

Yes and all are one of many species in a particular genus. Isn't the threadfin Jack in the same family as our trevally? -wicked looking fish.

When a Moderator from Planet catfish who ihas been on that forum since 2004 and 10,000 post can't give a definitive ID could back up the reason we have them. I can understand his call on L104 because others I've seen on PC were way cleaner than the ones known as and sold as "clown" here. This doesn't mean it isn't a great fish or maybe even a uncatergorized species or subspecies. Phoenix - your fish appears to be quite uncommon- or as least as far as science is concerned..

I have to say that this thread is in many ways a great illustration of issues we have here in NZ with plec ID's Page one is full of guesses on the ID of the fish with a number of possibilities put forward, but no resolution. Page two is a little more scientific in it analysis and while probably determining a genus determines that the information could not 100% ID the fish. Page three offers some more options but I believe they have resulted by "fact based on opinion" as much as "opinion based on fact". One of the real issues I have is the practise of giving imported plecs an L# after the fact. What I mean by that is that a worrying percentage of fish are comming in with no designated L#'s- check the import lists-the importer giving them a name only and often this is based roughly on a fish whose genus is known, and before we know it we have an L#. This is even more worrying when one of the factors in the ID is "how common" that ID might make that fish. The desire to have something more exotic in our tank is understandable but it shouldn't cloud our decision making or influence it. If L226 has 6-12 bars on body then that is 100% variation. Are we sure then there is no species with 15 or indeed 4. L271- Were these imported with that L# or was one designated to them here? Using the net as a resource you could question that ID. Funnily enough by the amount of barring on the dorsal and pectoral fins. Two imports- one definitely "not L271" and one "maybe", yet the L# has remained. The same question for the other L#'s quoted here. I'm not looking to dismiss anyones research. It is great to have impassioned people taking such a vested interest. But surely the truth is that we can't 100% ID many of these fish, particularly when it comes to genus like these and many of the spotted Ancistrus species and I would suggest that the lack of positive ID is often a influencing for these fish making our shores in the first place. If we know this fish comes under the umbrella of fish called tiger Peckoltia then surely any further designation is purely speculative. As much as it makes it "common" surely that is as far as we can go without creating future issues, like if a bonafide batch of L271 did actually come in. I wonder what the demand for many bonafide species is in Germany or UK or USA- The fact that NZ got "show" specimens of L200 and L128 that were only male is more than just coincidene. The unsexable juvi's were going for the same price, the problem is that they would require yrs of nuturing before getting to breeding age. Ask Harvaad Store from PC what he paid for his adult females L200' that went onto to breed for him in a number of weeeks and then determine how many here would have the means or the willingness to pay the same. The more research we do then the less mistakes will be made and God forbid the importers might figure out they need to be more diligent.

As per Narvarre. The key thing is to have the ability to move it easily when maintaining. It is probably 35-40kg when full and will need to be removed from under the tank to get the baskets out, or have at least good clearance in the stand. I slide mine out onto towels or into the babybath to save the floods i got when first got it. The great thing is that it is a filter that doesn't require high maintenance. They often need the impellor unclogged after cleaning and that also is a finnicky job if you have cramped quarters.

Now in the catfish section that fish would probably have its own L# by now. I wonder LA if you are subtley making a point in this thread.

Nice ! Living art-How big is your tank, any more room? I have 4 Serpae Monos about 2-3yrs old that I have to move on to a good home The biggest 12-14cm tall. These guys are in a Malawi tank I add a little salt to but need to move to brackish, so I would like them to go to somewhere more suited to their needs. Interested in the right place for them as opposed to money. PM me if you are interested. Maybe a swap even.

So you reckon that's gonna fly in the African cichlid section :roll: at least plecs are harder to breed. Mate I"m with flatfish particularly with the lyretail Also L226 a possibility. Lots of wood and fresh veges in their diet

:bounce: also add -adult size, clouration changes in fish during its development, potential stress colouration, locational varieties, variation in water quality, current vs filtration, and the very possibility that it made it to NZ as unidentified species and is therefore a good price for the importer.

Exactly the point I wa trying to make Flatfish, The ID I gave is of an unknown fish with no L number. Getting a fish and looking for an ID off the net is fine as long as you are willing to come up with no definitive answers. Ruling out a fish based on how common it is or isn't is a waste of time unless you are thinking of becomming a plec importer in NZ it would seem. Flatfish - I was under the impression that the term panogolus had been dropped 4-5 yrs ago, losing favour with the wider scientific community who didn't pick up on the move from DATZ, and genus name has reverted to Panaque. Seems that this guy could be a number as Flatfish has listed. How many of those fish are known to have been brought in the last few years. the fish aren't juvi's so they may have been here for a few years. Based on the fact alone I'm surprised you passed over L226 , ('Changae', 'Iquitos tiger') as they were imported in numbers 3-5yrs ago as well as being bred here. http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=761 Also Phoenix have a closer look at the way people are holding their plecs on the web. It is more of point of fore finger on top of head and behind eyes and thumb on abdomen behind the mouth. That is probably the most sensitive part of the fish so the mouth shouldn't be touched if possible.

Like your King Tiger the stripes on the "leopard Frog"( no such fish) will widen and get less defined with age.

Yeah there are definitely here or something very close. Both they and L253 have come in on the "Goldie" title. All those scobi's look the same at that age. Mistaken also as gold nugget but the ones I've seen get duller wirh age- A Universal truth .

Yep maybe viewtopic.php?f=23&t=37400&hilit=leopard+frog Leopard Frog ?