Shilo Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Looks like things are starting to move on the banning of unrestricted sale of endangered native fish. Please read and sign if you agree:https://www.toko.org.nz/petitions/ban-commercial-fishing-of-whitebait?source=facebook-share-button&time=1445999856If you are worried that this will mean no whitebait fritters from a cafe - don't be. Instead a ban will mean farming of whitebait will become feasible http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/69339042/Premium-Whitebait-Company-to-farm-whitebait which could protect the whitebait species even further.Went for a drive to Marakopa yesterday and counted over 30 cars parked alongside the river - all whitebaiters and this was a weekday. Not all will be selling of course but bet a lot are doing it for undeclared seasonal income. Silverdollarboy2 and kiwiraka 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjansss Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 That's a great step but all white baiting recreatal and comecal shound be banned I mean it's already technically illegal as most of the species are threated however I realise this isn't realistic but what shound happen is every 3 years all white baiting shound not be allowed allowing the most possible offspring to survive in that year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted October 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I don't think whitebaiting will ever be completely banned until the 5 species become extinct. But if a licence was needed for recreational whitebaiting then that money could be put back into habitat restoration. Despite it working for introduced species with the Fish & Game doing wonders on a lot of streams again it will never happen with native species though because licencing will open up a whole kettle of worms (traditional fisheries, cost of compliance, DOC syphoning the funds into birds...).I just think it weird that a kid can only catch up to 20 sprats off the wharf because of saltwater fishing regulations yet anybody can catch as many whitebait as they want during the season. If people were restricted to a kg per day it will go a long way of preventing this sort of thing: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/73392726/whitebaiter-slams-greedy-online-market.htmlBanning commercial sale and people profiting from destroying endangered species is a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjansss Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think a kg is far to much fishing rules for freshwater animals here are completely broken I mean a person can legally take 50 koura per day every day but under the same law they can only take 50 cope pods per day one breeds a lot faster then the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calculator Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 It would be nice if it happened, but at the moment the fisheries lobby groups are to strong, and to oposed to there being change that there is no way our current government will even consider doing something for the good of our environment. Wish it was different, but they cynic in me knows that it will never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverdollarboy2 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I'm going to sign it now. I think its a great idea to ban the sale of whitebait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyp123 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 It would be nice if it happened, but at the moment the fisheries lobby groups are to strong, and to oposed to there being change that there is no way our current government will even consider doing something for the good of our environment. Wish it was different, but they cynic in me knows that it will never happen. I hate to agree with you, but you're right, i'm to cynical to believe this sort of thing will accomplish much. Don't get me wrong, I signed it and completely support it - but the future of our native fish is about more than just whitebaiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 While the introduced fish like trout and salmon are considered more important than our natives they will have about as much chance of survival as our native lizards and frogs while people believe that cats should be free to roam and prey on whatever they fancy. Our values are a wee bit out of wack. alexyay, danval, Silverdollarboy2 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjansss Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I reasent that coment I have four cats all but one have bells and only ever catch insects the only one with out a bell is to old to hunt as he's about 15 and spend 90% of his time indoors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted October 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I also doubt things will change in a hurry. BUT I'm seeing more and more news reports about the threat to native fish and more calls for commercial ban then I ever did previously & to me this means it is gaining momentum. If it continues then there is a good chance a ban may just happen and even if it doesn't happen for 3-4 years it will be better then never.The reason trout and domestic cats are considered "more important" then natives is simply the number of votes and how loud their "voice" is. The Fish & Game * is a well organised and funded organisation with a lot of political contacts and experience. Cat people are numerous and traditionally the media doesn't want to cross them (think Gareth Morgan & how his proposed cat controls changed to cat killing). Commercial whitebaiters don't have anywhere near that sort of clout. If recreational whitebaiting was the proposal for a ban then yes things would be different and it would have no chance but there would be public support for banning profiting (normally under the table) from the extinction of native species.* F&G - I'm also a trout fisherman so a member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverdollarboy2 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Now only if we could ban commercial eeling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 While the introduced fish like trout and salmon are considered more important than our natives they will have about as much chance of survival as our native lizards and frogs while people believe that cats should be free to roam and prey on whatever they fancy. Our values are a wee bit out of wack.Heh, good excuse to try out the like button. People should control their animals, not let them roam and kill whatever they feel like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I don't hate cats, I just don't like what other peoples cats leave on my garden of fresh vegetables eaten raw. These roaming cats prevent me from allowing my pets to have a free roam confined to my back yard. Cats should not be allowed to roam freely anymore than dogs should. I don't like eating trout or salmon and I have as much desire to torture them on the end of a fishing line as I do to torture a rabbit or a seagull. Each to their own. willyp123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjansss Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Dogs can go on walks most cats hate walks if they wear bells I don't see where the proplem is I love our natives but I think it's cruel to have a cat a naturally roaming animal indoors its whole life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiraka Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I've signed it, although even if it does get passed I doubt it will have much affect. Whitebait will still be sold illegally and even most of the whitebaiters who dont will probably catch excess for friends and family. A better approach to protecting our our native fish would be compulsory fencing of waterways and protection of native bush, both mature and regenerating. Whitebaiting itself likely has a minimal effect on the native fish populations compared to pollution from farm runnofff, loss of habitat etc...It's a big step in the right direction if it does get passed though Silverdollarboy2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyp123 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Dogs can go on walks most cats hate walks if they wear bells I don't see where the proplem is I love our natives but I think it's cruel to have a cat a naturally roaming animal indoors its whole life So don't get a cat then, cats have been proven to be incredibly detrimental to our native wildlife, I used to have a cat - he had bells and they made no difference. Either your cat is stupid or incredibly smart. I doubt your cat only catches insects, you probably just don't see everything it catches. Edited October 29, 2015 by willyp123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Cats are hunters so they hunt as they were intended to do. Bells or no bells. The bad thing about bells is that they have left their deposit on my salad vegetables before I can get to the shotgun. Not that I would really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted October 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Oh I agree habitat destruction & pollution are the main threats for our natives. And yes it would be a good step in the right direction because I believe a commercial ban can only help for the following reasons:1. Will avoid some juvenile fish being killed off before they get to breed even if the amount is only a very small percentage of the population. Its a bit like the goverment saying "Kiwi's are endangered but the population are in their thousands so yes you can kill and sell as many kiwi chicks as you want just like the Shortjaw Kokopu."2. The media will be all over a ban and thus increase public awareness of our natives. This means more support for the fish & thus more money and political pressure to protect their habitats.3. Loath to say it on a public forum but it could be a step towards increased restrictions on recreational whitebaiting in the future.4. Simple fairness. At the moment dairy farmers are required to spend a lot of money and time on fencing and planting up waterways plus the loss of potential return from the land used in the planting. Yet the increase in fish population that this brings about are increasing whitebatiers catches. Thus the increased profits of a commercial whitebaiter are being paid for by the farmers being forced into doing the right thing. If I was a farmer I would consider this extremely unfair.Please no more cats in this discussion, too much off topic. kiwiraka, Silverdollarboy2 and Colour_genes 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colour_genes Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I agree with Shilo, the cat question is too much off topic here.For me personally the issue is simple. I have not directly contributed to the decline of whitebait, because I have never eaten whitebait and never will.If you want to help save the endangered whitebait population, do not eat whitebait. Persuade your friends and colleagues to stop eating whitebait. Explain the whole issue to them, especially to younger people who tend to learn more about conservation in schools & are more aware of the situation. Perhaps they will then choose not to purchase whitebait either- and so it would go on, snowballing over time. If the demand to purchase whitebait disappears, so does the commercial fishery for local sale. Removing demand for a product is always a more effective measure than banning it's supply.I don't know if whitebait are currently exported, but that definitely should be banned.Good luck to the aquaculturists farming inanga, but I expect the cost of their product will reflect the amount of technical input needed. Which is as it should be. Silverdollarboy2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexyay Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Dogs can go on walks most cats hate walks if they wear bells I don't see where the proplem is I love our natives but I think it's cruel to have a cat a naturally roaming animal indoors its whole life I hope you don't keep naturally free-swimming fish in tanks then (where's my hole-digging emoticon???) willyp123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjansss Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 A cats a lot smarter then most fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ymir Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) I have three cats, all indoor. The main reason is, so they don't get run over (we lost our last cat to a guy who swerved to hit him, we saw him do it) .Our three are perfectly adjusted and socialise perfectly well with visitors. The key is to have stuff to entertain them so they aren't bored. In Europe they are regularly house bound. Edited November 1, 2015 by Ymir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjansss Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 We adopt strays and I've never had one that could stand being stuck indoors as their had it there whole life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyp123 Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 We adopt strays and I've never had one that could stand being stuck indoors as their had it there whole life There's the problem, strays are often the worst for the environment as they have grown up eating native animals to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) If you wish to discuss this, rather than the whitebait sale ban petition, please start another thread in off topic! Edited October 31, 2015 by Caryl Silverdollarboy2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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