henward Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Need technical knowhow here. engineers, stuff like that. been doing heaps of reading. an d everywhere says.... as i suspected from previous reading that HEIGHT IS the determining factor mostly on pressure on the tank. Length is not too much of a problem, height is the problem. Width isnt huge issue too. also i read that 2.5 safety factor is safe. Buyt 3 is better, 3.8 is even better. Using these calculators http://www.theaquatools.com/building-your-aquarium https://public.sheet.zoho.com/public/ri ... calculator So here are some questions: Slight different to the other topic of efficiencies. 8) Tank Size: 2.4m x 1.2m x 60cm H (tank height will be 65cm but actual water height will be no more than 60 cm high) 1) This has a safety factor of 3.5 with 12mm glass - feedback? 2) tank maker says to me that he things 1.2 metres width is a problem, But everything i read says that its height. hence why im cutting down from 80 high to 60 high. 3) Would youy be comfortable with this? Width for my needs is the key. 4) the bottom pain on the calculator says should be 14.5 mm, I am thinking of doing one pane of 12mm, and another on top of 10mm as a giant brace so has the braceless look, does this mean it will be effectively 24mm thickness at the bottom? Thanks I had a plan, but now it kinda has to change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/diytan ... tank_2.htm This article accurate says that putting a hefty brace in the middle of the tank on top back to front pane. Effectively reduces the load by approx half. thus, making my tank effectively 2x 4foot tanks as opposed to an 8 foot. almost doubling my safety factor of 3.5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 In a previous life I have built hundreds and repaired heaps of tanks. Virtually every tank I have repaired has broken right next to the central brace and for that reason I only use European bracing. The greates pressure is at the bottom of the tank so the height is the critical factor. The width is not a problem untill the ends get big enough to have problems with flexing. European bracing assists with the flexing which is greatest at the top on the greatest span. The bonding to the base can be helped by adding euro bracing to the bottom and increasing the bonding area where the pressure is greatest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 In a previous life I have built hundreds and repaired heaps of tanks. Virtually every tank I have repaired has broken right next to the central brace and for that reason I only use European bracing. The greates pressure is at the bottom of the tank so the height is the critical factor. The width is not a problem untill the ends get big enough to have problems with flexing. European bracing assists with the flexing which is greatest at the top on the greatest span. The bonding to the base can be helped by adding euro bracing to the bottom and increasing the bonding area where the pressure is greatest. Is there a diagram online that describes the bracing you are talking about, would like to see it. wanna know exactly wha tyou are meaning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think with a tank of that size you'd be foolish not to have euro bracing and a couple of front-to-back center braces, as my old tank did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 oh yeah ok that seems like its a standard bracing, i didnt have any other type of bracing in mind really. my 1200litre was braced in this way also, 1 only but it was a thick one. but havng 2 is good too. so its better to have 2 slightly off centre than just one on the centre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 euro bracing is the brace that runs along the front and back and I think this is the one that Alan is saying is a must on a larger tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 That is it. I always stop it just short of the ends as in the picture too. You generally need to allow for filter pipes etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Need technical knowhow here. engineers, stuff like that. been doing heaps of reading. an d everywhere says.... as i suspected from previous reading that HEIGHT IS the determining factor mostly on pressure on the tank. Length is not too much of a problem, height is the problem. Width isnt huge issue too. also i read that 2.5 safety factor is safe. Buyt 3 is better, 3.8 is even better. Using these calculators http://www.theaquatools.com/building-your-aquarium https://public.sheet.zoho.com/public/ri ... calculator So here are some questions: Slight different to the other topic of efficiencies. 8) Tank Size: 2.4m x 1.2m x 60cm H (tank height will be 65cm but actual water height will be no more than 60 cm high) 1) This has a safety factor of 3.5 with 12mm glass - feedback? 2) tank maker says to me that he things 1.2 metres width is a problem, But everything i read says that its height. hence why im cutting down from 80 high to 60 high. 3) Would youy be comfortable with this? Width for my needs is the key. 4) the bottom pain on the calculator says should be 14.5 mm, I am thinking of doing one pane of 12mm, and another on top of 10mm as a giant brace so has the braceless look, does this mean it will be effectively 24mm thickness at the bottom? Thanks I had a plan, but now it kinda has to change! Hi Henward, Most of the articles and calculators found on the internet at present are based on my original article here: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/?p=1732 A lot of them have actually asked for permission to reproduce the arcticle or use the calculator but some have simply plagiarised it an taken the credit for themselves. The two links in your post are both based on my original but only the aquatools has bothered to ask permission to use it. This article accurate says that putting a hefty brace in the middle of the tank on top back to front pane. Effectively reduces the load by approx half. thus, making my tank effectively 2x 4foot tanks as opposed to an 8 foot. almost doubling my safety factor of 3.5? This statement is incorrect. The calculation already assume euro bracing of adequate quality is used so the safety factor calculated is the actual safety factor. In the tank photo shown above the strip of glass running along the front an back edges is too narrow to add significant strength as is at risk of breaking. If there were 2 front to back braces instead of one it would be better. Alternatively, if the strips were twice as wide it would be ok. The glass thickness article states 'all four sides simply supported'. This means all four edges of the glass have support as if it were as very rigid steel frame that does not flex under the load. It is possbile to have no top bracing but you have to modify the alpha and beta constants to cater for this. I've added another Excel file with the ability to calculate the glass thickness for unsupported top edges. There are 3 sheets in the file, siderest, sidefree, bottompanel. Siderest automatically changes the aplha and beta constants as you change the length and width but the other 2 sheets require you to change the values manually - don't forget to do this. siderest - standard tanks with Euro bracing sidefree - Open top tanks with no top bracing at all sottompanel - bottom panel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted February 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I will definitelyhave bracing ffront to back. I am considering with 2.4m length . I will have bracing on the side edges and 2 more in middle.... Is this what you mean by making it better? What width of glass shouldiI account for for the front to back bracing on top of the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 All front to rear bracing should be 200-250mm wide and along the front and back edges should be 125-150mm. Both should be minimum 10mm thick but 12mm would be a lot better as the width of the silicone connection to the front and rear glass will be 20% wider. The front and rear pieces should also be ground along their length so they are dead-flat. This will allow a very thin silicone joint for added strength due to a more uniform pressure loading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted February 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 All front to rear bracing should be 200-250mm wide and along the front and back edges should be 125-150mm. Both should be minimum 10mm thick but 12mm would be a lot better as the width of the silicone connection to the front and rear glass will be 20% wider. The front and rear pieces should also be ground along their length so they are dead-flat. This will allow a very thin silicone joint for added strength due to a more uniform pressure loading. Awesome! That'sthe ttype info Ineed .. Thanks heaps.. Will factor it in my designs! Hefty brute reinforcements is going to be my focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I dont know if this is helpful or not, but a mate of mines tank has the bracing across the top like normal and it also has 2 bits of steel cut to size that goes over the bracing that grips to the top of the tank. they look kinda like ] over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dattofish Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 just reading over this it seems my tank i got built has a fault their.. didnt think it looked right. its 650 high an 600 wide but is ment to be 750 wide. for the bracing theirs a 80mm wide strip going right along the bottom both sides in length, an at the top its got a 80mm strip at the top going full length but for the width its got a peice 415mm long just joining into the 2 80mm peices each side. just by silicon an no bracing in the middel. does that sound right or wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Are the pieces that butt into the 80mm strips at each end of the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dattofish Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 http://s244.beta.photobucket.com/user/andydatto/media/20130203_193654_zpse265cc28.jpg.html#/user/andydatto/media/20130203_193654_zpse265cc28.jpg.html?&_suid=135994931616906551954673875148 so you can see the 2 80mm strips each side of the width of the tank then theirs a peice joining inbetween the two of them. wouldve thought that would go right across the 2 long lengths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 probably not so important for pieces at the ends of the tank. braces mid tank would need to overlap the strips running lengthwise though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dattofish Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 ha thats what i wouldv thought. their is no middle braces at all!? what ya see in the picture is the same at each end an no bracing at all in the middel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 My understanding is that the top euro bracing is to take the bow out of the side glass and the ends are short so do not have as much flex as the longer panels That is the way I have always done euro bracing except I stop the longer braces short of the ends to allow for wires and airhoses etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 :iag: glass is stronger side on... kinda simple really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dattofish Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 so the tank in my picture is that bracing ok? an like i said thats all it has each end nothing in the middel. an plus its 650 high an only 10mm thick. an he told me if i wanted to go higher than 600 it would have to be made of 12mm because can bow.? i havent filled it an dont want to i think it would bow .i would just like my $ back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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