cats, anyone else love them this much...

[jackp]

It could also be argued that letting your cat run free is like giving your Aro access to a community tank

[aotealotl]

so how do you contain a cat?

check this link

[smidey]

It could also be argued that letting your cat run free is like giving your Aro access to a community tank

and so becomes like their natural wild environment?

[smidey]

check this link

seems to defeat the purpose of having cats as companions and to catch rodents i think, that just makes them into another critter locked up for our amusement.

[jackp]

except there is nothing natural about introducing predators into a predator free environment. yes it would be great for the introduced predator, but not so good for the ill-equipt prey.

For the record I don't agree with ridding nz of pet cats. I do however think it's good that there is discussion happening about the issue. Somewhere between Gareth Morgans "get rid of them" stance and the cat lovers "i have a right to own cats and let them do whatever they want" we may find a reasonable solution that allows for both the protection of native species and the continued coexistance of nzers and their moggies.

[smidey]

IMO domestic cats are the least of the problems native birds face, habitat loss and other predators like ferrets, stoats, weasles etc that are in rural areas must be more of a threat.

yeah i agree with that but i still have not seen any hard evidence that shows the domestic cats are responsible for any more than a very small percentage of native bird deaths. I say a small percentage simply because cats must catch some native birds but the facts about exactly how many will never be obtained. The figures being thrown around are simply assumptions or calculated guesses.

There are so many factors for each cat, for example i know my cats do not leave one side of our property simply because there are 3 large free roaming dogs on one side of our property and they love chasing cats so they avoid that area totally.

Feral cats need to be killed, the domestic ones i don't think can possibly be a much of an issue to native birds as most dog lovers make out.

this thread has become more about the freedom of cats than the actual topic of them killing native birds. I think we need to have some consideration of others pets and for those that have stated they are with in their rights to kill someone else's cat if it comes onto their property, do it if you wish but it is a two way street and pay back will happen at some point. You may think you have your dog contained all the time but there will be a point that it will get out and i hope the same rules or attitude is applied to your dog.

[jackp]

but what is your opinion based on. conservationists at doc have sited cats as being an appreciable impediment to wildlife conservation. yes it's mainly feral cats, but where do you think they come from? feral cats are domestic cats without domiciles. and you can't look at it on a cat by cat basis. my father used to own a rifle, noone was ever killed by that rifle, therefore gun control is stupid.

the reality is that there are enough irresponsible cat owners out there to make it worth considering putting regulations into place. simply making cat owners who are not breeders desex their cats would go a long way to combatting the issues (as would having cat free zones in selected high risk areas). the reality is there is never going to be a perfect solution that results in zero cat related wild-life fatalities whilst protecting cat owners rights to own free roaming cats in abundance. however with a bit of compromise on both sides maybe a solution can be reached that lessens the effect of cats on native wildlife whilst not putting too much of a finacial/management burden on owners.

[smidey]

but what is your opinion based on.

the fact that the majority of domestic cats are in urban areas and the majority of native birds are in rural areas. Pretty hard for a cat to catch a bird that is 20km away.

It's more of an emotional topic than anything. If people want more native birds around, stop wasting time concentrating on domestic cats. put their efforts into something useful & target the real threats to them, feral cats, possums, stoats, ferrets, weasels, introduced birds etc. Once they are eradicated then look into small threats like domestic cats, roads, forestry clearing etc.

From all of this discussion about the only useful information that has come out is that cats are a real problem for people that put up poly houses to grow plants that don't naturally do well here.

[jackp]

To eradicate feral cats you have to control domestic cats. That's the point

[smidey]

yes neutering will help, i would not own an UN-neutered cat and totally agree with that being the law.

What Garef has stated has nothing to do with that, everything i have read about what he has said he just wants domestic cat numbers reduced and it has nothing to do with feral cats.

[jackp]

personally I think he has voiced an extreme view knowing full well it won't legislated into place. but his main point is that there is little regulation of cat ownership and what little there is is not being enforced. and he doesn't want to simply reduce numbers, he wants them gone (not killed, just not replaced). as i said, i don't agree with him, but i do like that he's got the issue being talked about. if you can try to look at it from a completely neutral position, it is a bit ridiculous that someone is allowed to go buy a cat, let it roam wherever it wants and kill whatever it wants, drop litters of kittens whereever and there is pretty much no chance of any concequences for them.

obviosly you are a responsible cat owner, and i can see how you could feel like you're being unfairly attacked in this debate. but the reality is the purpose of it all is to try to get all cat owners to do pretty much what you are doing. i very much doubt that mr morgan thinks he is going to get rid of domestic cats, but i'm sure he'll chalk it up as a victory if there is some measures put into place to reduce the harm that cats do to our wildlife. is it really too much to ask that cat owners de-sex their cats and put bells on them (yes they are not 100% effective, but they do work in many cases).

[smidey]

personally I think he has voiced an extreme view knowing full well it won't legislated into place. but his main point is that there is little regulation of cat ownership and what little there is is not being enforced. and he doesn't want to simply reduce numbers, he wants them gone (not killed, just not replaced). as i said, i don't agree with him, but i do like that he's got the issue being talked about. if you can try to look at it from a completely neutral position, it is a bit ridiculous that someone is allowed to go buy a cat, let it roam wherever it wants and kill whatever it wants, drop litters of kittens whereever and there is pretty much no chance of any concequences for them.

obviosly you are a responsible cat owner, and i can see how you could feel like you're being unfairly attacked in this debate. but the reality is the purpose of it all is to try to get all cat owners to do pretty much what you are doing. i very much doubt that mr morgan thinks he is going to get rid of domestic cats, but i'm sure he'll chalk it up as a victory if there is some measures put into place to reduce the harm that cats do to our wildlife. is it really too much to ask that cat owners de-sex their cats and put bells on them (yes they are not 100% effective, but they do work in many cases).

Garef has made an extreme point that only makes himself look like an idiot IMO and he has backed that up in buying the nix.

What he has stated is we need to reduce domestic cat ownership to stop them killing native birds but that will likely be the least effective way of actually increasing numbers of native birds which i assume is the goal.

I do look at it from a neutral perspective, i would love to see cats being neutered as part of a control of un-wanted kittens which is what the SPCA does on a daily basis. I am a keen hunter by choice and get rid of as many possums, feral goats and rabbits as i can. Reducing cat numbers i'm sure will help lizard numbers but that is a topic for another thread.

I have neutered cats, if that makes me a responsible cat owner then great but that is where it stops. My cats roam a little but that is reduced by my own and my neighbours dogs that terrorise them when they venture out.

I don't think i am being unfairly attacked at all, this thread is simply an example of most threads that are of a topic that has factual and emotional input and they can go on forever with a little effort. It's a good debate at times with valid factual & emotional points from both sides through out but no matter who "wins" it will count for very little to the majority i think. we have our own opinions which is all good.

[F15hguy]

so... in short... I have a cat, not all cats are doing major damage, controls need to be put in place and I like chat style forums.....

[smidey]

so... in short... I have a cat, not all cats are doing major damage, controls need to be put in place and I like chat style forums.....

you missed the part about garef being a muppet

controls on cats would be good more from an urban nuisance prespective but will not help native birds in any measurable context i don't think.

[F15hguy]

:iag:

annoys me though the amount of control on dogs but none on cats, one thought my new vege patch was a sand box, crap all over the lawn....

if a dog did it instant $500 fine

[smidey]

:iag:

annoys me though the amount of control on dogs but none on cats, one thought my new vege patch was a sand box, crap all over the lawn....

if a dog did it instant $500 fine

yeah agree, it's a tough one but i think dog controls are there to protect humans due to the amount and seriousness of attacks rather than property, how many kids were in the news last year after being savaged by dogs so dog control makes sense to me.

[F15hguy]

i'm more in favour of "Pet Keeping Licenses" instead. almost all dog attacks can be put down to bad owners.

tbh i'm all for fish keeping to be controlled as well, im kinda sick of

[smidey]

yes owners but dogs get excited and loose control to or the kids do something that any dog would bite for.

i agree with you to a degree but it is impossible to regulate everything and apply it so that regulation happens.

[David R]

What I want to know is what was used as justification to make pet ferrets illegal and what makes those same criteria not applicable to cats.

Feral cats only come from one place; pet cats. Most other species (koi and ferrets for example) that have proven themselves to be able to establish wild populations have been declared unwanted organisms and removed from the pet trade. What makes cats not subject to the same scrutiny?

[F15hguy]

because of lots of crazy cat lady voters.....

[disgustipated]

What I want to know is what was used as justification to make pet ferrets illegal and what makes those same criteria not applicable to cats.

Feral cats only come from one place; pet cats. Most other species (koi and ferrets for example) that have proven themselves to be able to establish wild populations have been declared unwanted organisms and removed from the pet trade. What makes cats not subject to the same scrutiny?

:gpo2: you have a fair point there.

and no, crazy cat ladies are not a good enough reason to execute hypocritical laws.

[danval]

Totally agree with David R's comments. :iag:

[BigBossPants]

There is money in cats, not so much the other animals. Think about what people spend on toys, beds, food, catteries, etc., ferret owners (typically) will not spend the same kind of money, there isn't an industry built around it. Kinda like trying to get rid of trout...

I have 5 cats and 2 dogs, all our cats are desexed, fully vaccinated, wear collars with bells and my details and are kept in at night. I would consider this to be responsible, and I fully expect other cat owners to do this as a minimum. I don't find it acceptable for my own cats or any others to poop in my vege garden and have turned the hose on my own and my neighbours cats on several occasions.

I found at one stage one of my cats was harassing a neighbours cat on their property, so I, the responsible cat owner, took steps to contain this cat further. I did not expect the neighbour to take steps to keep my cat off their property, as some of you seem to think is appropriate.

If a neighbour is causing too much noise, we expect them to make less, we do not simply block our ears.

[danval]

Fish fingers .... Take a look at Bigboss's post... A responsible cat owner. Please conform!

[Sophia]

Danval, read an earlier post, some cats cannot be contained in that manner, it does not suit their personalities and their behaviour becomes intolerable. Take him to the vet and have him put down then I hear someone suggest, try getting a vet to put down a cat that isn't dying - they won't do it.

If I had a cat that liked to be inside all his life, I would do as BBP does too, but you just don't know what sort of cat you will get unless you have it from kittenhood and it's been raised well that far. Some cats like to go out, some don't. Even if you get a well behaved cat it still behaves as it pleases.

One neighbour's cat had a bell and he learned to become even more stealthy and still catch birds.

I think that is the major difference between owning a cat instead of a dog, and people who don't love cats don't seem to get it. Part of the reason we like cats is because they are their own bosses, they do as they please and are independant. We like to have an animal that is supposedly free to go but still comes back because it makes us feel good. No doubt the haters will use this information to criticise further but that is the fact.