Writing an article - Help wanted.

[Sophia]

I think by now Sheepsnana is wishing he didn't start this thread :sml2:

[Sheepsnana]

I think by now Sheepsnana is wishing he didn't start this thread :sml2:

Actually, I love getting lots of responses, even if I disagree.

Here's the jist of my idea:

Substrate: None, a little, lots.

Plants: No real plants, a few real plants, full out planted tank.

Stocking levels: low, high.

Filtration: sponge, internal, canister, trickle.

Cycling: borrowed media, fishless, fish with water changes.

You'll notice I deliberately left out tank size :slfg:

I've said it before, and I'll happily say it again:

However, I don't have anywhere near as much experience as some of the others on this forum.

[alanmin4304]

Good fish keeping is about balance. A small tank or a heavily stocked tank is OK if you have good filtration aeration and frequent water changes. When importing or breeding in large numbers it is normal to stock tanks to the maximum because there is an economy of scale. This requires that you pay particular attention to water conditions and you pray that your aeration or filtration does not break down or you can have a real disaster. The extreme opposite is a tank that is very lightly stocked and has a good surface area and this may not require filtration or aeration. It is not possible to lay down hard and fast rules about tank size, stocking rate, fish type etc but worthwile to encourage people to strive for balance. Obviously the less parameters that are needed to be controlled by a beginner the better.

[Sheepsnana]

It is not possible to lay down hard and fast rules about tank size, stocking rate, fish type etc but worthwile to encourage people to strive for balance. Obviously the less parameters that are needed to be controlled by a beginner the better.

And that's a quick way to sum up what I'm trying to write about.

[Caryl]

Then it's going to be a very short article after all :gigl:

[purplex]

While I am one of the newest members here, I'd like to say that I was more than a little shcoked to see people still using fish for cycling!

I did quite an extensive amount of research before I got my 50L set up, and I personally used fishless raw prawn cycling. There were several reasons for this:

1) No fish were harmed in the making of the tank.

2) It meant that I could cycle the tank quicker, by having the temperature set higher than if I used live fish.

3) Having a raw prawn released a steady amount of ammonia, and you could track where it was in the cycle quite effectively.

4) By using the prawn, it meant that I didn't OVERFEED the tank.

5) I didn't know enough to cycle with plants, and even knowing about it now, I would STILL cycle with a prawn.

6) There was no mess to clean up, bar lifitng the prawn out (it was in a pantyhose leg) and disposing of it.

7) I didn't have access to filter media.

I would still do it again, I had no smell, my tank was fully cycled in 3 weeks, not 6, and when I put my fish in, they weren't going to die because I forgot to do a water change, and the ammonia spiked...

Just my 2c... As I said, one of the newest members... (interestingly enough, when I was researching for my tank, this forum was down, so I spent a lot of time on American sites)

[Hamstar99]

Yeah i agree that seems to be one big difference between the US and here where cycling with fish is still recommended by many. I havnt cycled with fish for 10years now and use Clear ammonia. I dont really think the "my fish survived so it must be ok" justification cuts it really. I guess its that old education thing cropping up again.

[alanmin4304]

It is not about education it is about common sense. Many people think that using prawns or ammonia is not cruel to fish but they never ask themselves how many dead prawns are equal to how many fish. When you think it is cycled and then add your fish there is no balance with ammonia produced by dead prawns and that produced by your added fish so there is then a mini cycle going on again. They say patience is a virtue and it is. If you set up a tank and plant it well then slowly add fish and do water changes you ACTUALLY establish a balance between the fish and the nitrofying bacteria rather than a balance between a dead prawn and nitrofying bacteria. It is fashionable to do fishless cycles at the moment and those that wish to are more than welcome but I will continue to add fish slowly and establish the CORRECT balance.

[alanmin4304]

I think that most people today want to set up a tank and have it all go by tomorrow morning. Go down the petshop and buy a bottle of bacteria to get the filter working properly (how aerobic bacteria stay viable in a bottle in a petshop for months is beyond me) throw in a dead prawn to feed the bugs and speed the whole process up. Patience works OK for me.

[F15hguy]

+1, patience is more than a virtue with tanks.

I've always used the live fish method, and not had any trouble, have heard some interesting stories about the prawn technique (p.s. if its about being humane, then 1 dead prawn compared to 1-5 Live fish )

I also use a live bacteria solution nowdays, dunno if its absolutely necessary but it gives you a bit of extra lee way.

p.s. they keep the bacteria live by putting it into a dormant phase, similar to anthrax in white powder form

[livingart]

I also use a live bacteria solution nowdays, dunno if its absolutely necessary but it gives you a bit of extra lee way.

p.s. they keep the bacteria live by putting it into a dormant phase, similar to anthrax in white powder form

how do they keep it dormant and viable?

[F15hguy]

dunno, something about the liquid I suppose.

remember when they were spraying for painted apple moth and people got annoyed when they wouldn't divulge what the spray base was as it was what made the bacterial spray work.

many organic insecticides use Baccillus thuringus (excuse my spelling) to kill the insects and have a dormant bacteria, exposure to the insect it self is the trigger to wake it up. im thinking exposure to the tank environment or the ammonia/nitrite itself is the trigger in this case.

[livingart]

http://math.la.asu.edu/~halsmith/dorman ... evised.pdf

a good read :smln: :gigl:

[Godly3vil]

It is not about education it is about common sense. Many people think that using prawns or ammonia is not cruel to fish but they never ask themselves how many dead prawns are equal to how many fish. When you think it is cycled and then add your fish there is no balance with ammonia produced by dead prawns and that produced by your added fish so there is then a mini cycle going on again. They say patience is a virtue and it is. If you set up a tank and plant it well then slowly add fish and do water changes you ACTUALLY establish a balance between the fish and the nitrofying bacteria rather than a balance between a dead prawn and nitrofying bacteria. It is fashionable to do fishless cycles at the moment and those that wish to are more than welcome but I will continue to add fish slowly and establish the CORRECT balance.

+1

This is the way I have always done it and never once lost a fish due to cycling. I havn't noticed any increased agitation in any either. I'll stick with what works.

[alanmin4304]

Some bacteria such as the food poisoning organism Clostridium perfringens can form spores but I am not aware that the bacteria we are encouraging are able to do that.

[purplex]

This is using one dead fresh prawn that you buy over the counter at the supermarket by the way, not some random prawn you purchase at the pet store or pick up at the sea side. It's going to get eaten anyway.

My tank was cycled, and there was no mini-cycle when I added my fish - I monitored this closely, I have Aspergers so when I do something, I go the whole hog.

I didn't want it set up 'today' and add fish tomorrow - like I said, I reasearched, this site was down, so I had the american ones to go off.

I'm glad I didn't risk any fish, a prawn that was going to end up as someones lunch/dinner compared to live fish...

[alanmin4304]

You would know that fish have a more advanced "self destruct button" than many other organisms. That is they rot a lot quicker when they die (have less shelf life in a freezer etc). The purpose for using them is that they produce ammonia as they decay so they are a source of ammonia rather than from a bottle. I said what I said in my previous posts because that is what I think and do and there is always more than one way to do things with fish keeping and the right way for you is what works best for you. I was simply pointing out why I do what I do.