Set up tank questions?

[GrahamC]

Use the aqua vac to remove the water and use the buckets to refill. Stand the buckets for a few mins, and give it a good mix so that the dechlorinator mixes with the water.

Grab some more gravel from your other tank and put in this tank to help seed it. Return the other gravel sock.

Use some tape and place on the tank to mark the 50% mark. Gravel line to top of water. And remove this amount each day until ammonia is a much lower level.

[Caper]

Grab some more gravel from your other tank and put in this tank to help seed it. Return the other gravel sock

I don't have any extra gravel.

The dechlorinator is 1 tsp. per 10 gallons; used approximately 2 tsps. so could have some in each bucket. Can you put too much dechlorinator in??? I'd rather have a bit too much than not enough.

:dunno:

When doing water changes on cycled tanks, always added dechlorinator then water directly from tap. Was I killing good bacteria all along??? I don't mind using buckets until the tank is cycled. But if I have to go back to buckets, I'll have to give up my tanks

Thanks,

Caper

[GrahamC]

We are just postulating why your tank has apparently not started to cycle yet, and the method of water change you are doing is not that which is recommended.

Once you have the filter/tank fully cycled, it won't make much of a difference. Some people don't even bother to add dechlorinator at that point for small PWCs.

The dechlorinator is non-toxic so a teaspoon above what you need won't hurt.

[alanmin4304]

Some dechlorinators can produce ammonia as a bi product (but only in relation to how much chlorine is present).

[Jasharin]

Some dechlorinators can produce ammonia as a bi product (but only in relation to how much chlorine is present).

This is only the case if your water supply is treated with chloramines. If your water is just treated with plain old chlorine, any old water conditioner would work. If you're unlucky enough to have a municipal supply treated with chloramines, you'd need to look more carefully at what water conditioner you use, and you'd probably want to get one that locks away any ammonia produced during treatment.

[Caper]

Checked bottle of dechlorinator: neutralizes chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metals.

Some dechlorinators can produce ammonia as a bi product (but only in relation to how much chlorine is present).

Don't see anything on the bottle about ammonia being a bi-product.

This is only the case if your water supply is treated with chloramines.

When I used to be on here before, there was much discussion on chlorines/chloramines. The concensus back then was that if your water has chlorine then it has chloramines (but don't want to rehash that one, just thought I'd mention what I learned here before) :smln:

I'm glad that once the tank is cycled I can go back to doing the water changes as usual...whew!

Thanks,

Caper

[alanmin4304]

Copied from a previous post & edited:

When you add chlorine to water you get hypochlorous acid which reacts with the amines (in all proteins) and forms monochloramine. When you add more chlorine you get dichloramine and even more you get trichloramine. All these (and other reactions) form part of the "chlorine demand" in the water. You cannot get free available chlorine until this "chlorine demand" is satisfied. Therefore when the reaction is pushed towards trichloramine there will be virtually no monochloramine present. In some states in the US they treat the water with monochloramine (made by reacting chlorine with ammonia) because chlorine will react with other impurities in the water and form some compounds that are not so nice (such as acetone) where as monochloramine will not. Monochloramine is not as effective in treating water as chlorine as is used in NZ but is still a strong oxidising agent.

When people complain that the chlorine in a swimming pool is too strong and it is burning their eyes the problem usually is that the free available chlorine has been used up by contaminants in the water (such as urea) and this has pushed the chloramines back towards the monochloramine and this is what is burning their eyes. The problem is fixed by adding more chlorine.

When you allow water to stand or aerate it to get rid of the chlorine the chloramines all move back to monochloramine and this will react with your fish the same as an under chlorinated swimming pool will with your eyes.

Chlorine and all chloramines can be converted to more harmless chemicals with the addition of sodium thiosulphate.

Drinking water will contain various impurites that add to the chlorine demand and will form chloramines and other compounds. Ammonia is a bi product of the reaction when adding thiosulphate to chlorinated water.

_________________

[Caper]

Oh my gosh...I've always said that most of you must be scientists with all the knowledge of chemicals and such

But with that said, all Greek to me :oops: and more like a foreign language is as follows:

These are the "principal ingredients" on the dechlorinator bottle:

- sodium hydroxymethane sulfinate

- polyvinyl pyrollidones

- organic hydrocolloids

- organic chelating compounds

Does any of this indicate that ammonia is a bi-product???

Thanks,

Caper

[alanmin4304]

The usual ingredient is sodium thiosulphate which produces some ammonia. Not familiar with your ingredients.

[GrahamC]

The organic chelating compounds will be fine. I wouldn't worry about ammonia as a byproduct. But if you are concerned, do an ammonia test

[Caper]

Thanks all

Grahamc wrote:

But if you are concerned, do an ammonia test

:sml1: :sml1: I may be doing these in my sleep now :sml1: :sml1:

This is TAKING what seems like forever. :an!gry

Caper

[GrahamC]

Not to labour the point, but a Seachem AmmoniaAlert stuck in your tank is a lot easier than doing API ammonia tests. It shows your ammonia levels constantly without having to fiddle with bottles, and chemicals. And it was more cost effective for me as I found at one stage I was doing twice daily API tests and ran out ... but the alert works for a year. And it measures toxic ammonia, not total ammonia which is more important.

[Caper]

And it measures toxic ammonia, not total ammonia which is more important.

What do the test kits measure? (without getting too technical on me now :smln:)

Next time I go to the pet store I'll see what they have but will probably keep going with the other for now.

Caper

[GrahamC]

Total ammonia is in two forms - free ammonia, and ammonium. Free ammonia is the toxic form. The two are in differing proportions depending primarily on the acidity of your water. In acid water the total ammonia could be in the non toxic ammonium form, and in basic water ( such as you have ), it can be all as toxic ammonia. The liquid test kits only measure total ammonia.

I'm not suggesting you replace what you have, but at the current rate of testing you might be needing a new test kit soon so at that point look at alternatives

[Caper]

I'm not suggesting you replace what you have, but at the current rate of testing you might be needing a new test kit soon so at that point look at alternatives

I didn't think you were suggesting I replace what I have...I just took it as another option, opion, etc. (alternative)! That is one way we learn

I appreciate all the help/suggestions I get

OH...OH...but would really like to know how/where to get the magic wand that makes tanks cycle in an instant :gigl:

Caper

[GrahamC]

OH...OH...but would really like to know how/where to get the magic wand that makes tanks cycle in an instant :gigl:

Caper

You can purchase bacteria in bottle. Google for the most effective ones as they differ somewhat.

[blueether]

You can purchase bacteria in bottle. Google for the most effective ones as they differ somewhat.

or rinse out some of the gunk from a cycled filter...

[Caper]

Update:

The last 5 six days:

- adding water to bucket and mixing dechlorinator before adding to tank

ammonia - 1 (maybe a tad lower)

nitrites - 0

Today removed one cartridge from other 29 gallon and placed in cycling tank filter.

When first started tanks years ago, used bottled water. This time just tap water could this be why taking longer to cycle and not seeing nitrites yet? Could there be any other reasons why I'm not seeing nitrites yet???

Thanks,

Caper :oops:

[alanmin4304]

"Without getting too technical:"Ammonia is soluble in water and forms ammonium when in solution. This exists in equilibrium (which means in plain English -with a kiwi accent, that they will both exist at the same time but the ratio of each will depend on the pH). Only ammonia is toxic but some test kits will test both.

[Hamstar99]

Hi Caper. Yes you should have nitrites and it seems strange to me that you havnt had any yet.

check this link to see a typical nitrogen cycle graph if you havnt already. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cycling.php

Could be one of a few thing i guess.

1. faulty test kit.

2. already cycled

3. stalled cycle- temperature too cold, PH too low etc, but this should only slow it down in my opinion and you should still have nitrites.

One way to check would be to test for Nitrates if you could get your hands on a test. This will confirm whether or not you are cycled or whether or not you really havnt produced any nitrites.

Also tap water should be fine with you dechlorinator. cheers

[livingart]

do you have any fish in there yet?

[Caper]

Thanks all

I will be getting a nitrate kit but not till end of next week.

I've been reading and reading about the nitrogen cycle...and Hamstarr99 just read the one you gave the link to

April 3rd is when the first traces of ammonia appeared; eventually climbing to 1. Eight days of approximate readings of 1.

It takes about two weeks for the first group of bacteria (nitrosomonas) to become mature enough to convert all the ammonia in your tank to nitrite.

Quoted from Cichlid-Forum.com.

I really don't understand these "nitro" bacteria. Does this indicate that the 8 days of getting ammonia readings of approximately 1 that it should be another few days BEFORE I get readings of nitrites??

IF the tank were cycled, why would I still be getting readings for ammonia??

Yes, livingart...I have 4 platties in the tank since March 26th.

I'm getting really frustrated :dunno:

Caper

[livingart]

stop the frustration

put another 4 fish in

keep up the water changes

wait another week then put in some more fish

keep up the water changes

observe fish at least daily

any abnormal activity or look to the fish do a water change

sit back and enjoy your tank

i have an aqua one 980

set up from scratch, overstocked to the max as had no where else to house the fish

fish were in an outside pond that heating failed on

just water changes have kept it running

[Caper]

Thanks so much for the encouragement livingart :thup:

I will have to wait to the end of the week before getting more fish. So shall be interesting to see what the readings will be by then :cofn: If no changes, I will take a sample in to the pet store for them to check.

I really appreciate the help you all give me...very much appreciated

Caper

[livingart]

when i first started there weren't the test kits around as much

and my dad had kept fish as well

i find your fish can tell you what is going on in the tank

fish at the surface can mean not enough surface agitation, and polluted water

sitting on the bottom, can mean their cold

clamped fins water parameters out of whack\

there are other things that can cause these symptoms as well

generally speaking if there is a problem i do a water change first