wordhappy Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Hi everyone, I'm relatively new to fishkeeping (had my tank about eight months or so) and have had a few setup issues in that time. Currently my goldfish are looking healthy, nice happy dorsal fins, active, all looking good except for what appears to be a single missing scale low on the left flank of one goldfish, and what appears to be a tiny glob of white cream on the anal fins of another. They have been getting on just fine with no major problems for some time now... but for the last week they have been spitting out any food they are offered. The same brand of flake food they have been eating for ages is not good enough anymore. They eventually eat it (they must do because it goes and I do eventually see them eating without spitting) - they're enthusiastic about meal times as usual but a couple of seconds after taking in a flake they will spit it back out... Of course I am aware that my main problem is the tank size (three very small - 2-3 inch - goldfish in a 38L tank) - when I started out, I was under the impression it was a very good tank size for up to about five goldfish... since learned that was wrong, but can't afford a new tank so I am doing the best I can with filtration, water changes, and generally keeping a good eye on things. Anyone got any ideas as to what might be the problem here? Thanks in advance! :spop: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepsnana Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I'm sure there will be people on here that will happily offer up a larger tank (either cheap or if you're really lucky, free). I've got one here that I'ld give you but it's only 50L and transport will be a killer. In regards to your fish spitting out food, how old is the food? most fish food is recommended to be used in under 3 months, before they lose some of the nutrients? I'm not an expert on the matter, I just remember feeling absolutely gutted when I found out, since I had bought big packs of food. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I've been putting my food in the fridge hoping it will last longer, and take out a portion for another container for day to day feeding. So maybe your food has gone off. If you buy new food, and you have fancy goldfish, then i'd suggest you use sinking pellets such as TetraFin sinking mini sticks. And it has colour enhancers. Flake has to be presoaked so that you don't force the goldies to feed from the surface and thus swallow too much air. Also it's worthwhile to feed them once a week crushed cooked deshelled green peas to alter their diet, and to add some fibre. They love the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Flake has to be presoaked so that you don't force the goldies to feed from the surface and thus swallow too much air. :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordhappy Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Thanks guys... could be the age of the food as it will be over three months. When they are this small it is hard to buy food in containers small enough to use within three months! A free tank, eh? That would be sweet and a great boon from the Universe. In the meantime I am looking after the little dudes as best I can and plan to buy a 250L tank next year (if the Universe doesn't bless me with one this year, hehe). I don't presoak my flake food but that is because my fish have learned to wait for it to hit the filter downstream and then they have a great old time following it all over the tank and vacuuming it up off the bottom! So I guess my first step is to buy some new food. I'm also going to give them a few peas tonight and see how they like that. < Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordhappy Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 @livingart - why the lol? I have heard the presoaking thing a lot... just never had to actually do it. May have tried once early on then found out they just wait for it to sink. < Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Never heard that before and have fed heaps of flake to goldfish without pre wetting it. Never heard a goldfish burp or the other either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I found my Oranda one day with difficulty maintaining his/her orientation swimming upside down or side ways. I fed it some green peas, and switched to sinking pellets and soaking the flake. Fixed the problem straight away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 It wont do them any harm wetting it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Some foods swell more once wet and, in the short bodied goldfish, this causes digestion problems - hence the odd swimming. My goldfish get food much older than 3 months and still eat it. What is the room temp like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 the lol was from a few years of keeping gold fish and not had a problem with feeding from the surface i have seen problems with gas in the gastrointestinal tract though which can be corrected sometimes by feeding green peas i suppose if the oesophageal sphincter was weak it could allow air into the digestive tract or many commercial goldfish foods contain wheat and soy which can create gas in the colon caused by bacteria fermenting the starch or sugars found in them digestion of these starches by animals requires an enzyme produced by bacteria present in the gastrointestinal tract producing hydrogen, methane and carbon dioxide it is also possible that high nitrates can affect the vascular mechanisms for controlling the amount of air in the swim bladder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 The gold fish breeder I visited in Napier had strong views on food. Based on his 50+ years of experience, he told me to chuck out the floating pellets I had been given, and only use a high quality flake on account of the food swelling when wet problem. At times he would also feed crushed weet-bix to his breeding tanks, but this is something I don't have in my house so never tried it. I do though soak both the flake and sinking pellets before feeding them. As for the air swallowing issue, my Oranda has no issues what so ever of clearing the whole tank surface of duck weed so I presume it is a combination of factors. Do you have a picture of this new white spot on your fish's tail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 My dad always fed his pond fish on porridge spring and autumn. This was especially good as the weather cooled and their digestive systems started shutting down over winter. Then, when they were ready to eat again when the weather warmed again, it was easy on their systems. I found major problems with cheap brands of pellets but not good quality ones. The cheap ones swelled a lot more than the good quality. My pond fish get a mix of pellets and flake but they prefer the flake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordhappy Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Thanks everyone, I'm taking it all in... room temp varies a bit from 13-25 degrees as the weather has been variable lately. I try to do the water changes on warmer days to keep the temperature a bit more even. Fish are swimming well; all three are upright and swimming well at all levels within the tank so I'm not thinking swim bladder issues... I'll try to get a pic of the white spot tomorrow. And maybe the scale too. < Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ive never wet my food for the goldys ive been breedingthem since i was 8 and had over 3000 of them goldys eat anything readily and mine ate alot bugs falling onto water maybe ur fish r picky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Goldfish have some 20% of their brain devoted to processing taste bud information and a highly complex mechanism for sorting out food from gravel, noxious substances etc in their back of their mouths. They can spit out the noxious stuff while swallowing food at the same time. If they are eventually swallowing the food, perhaps it is contaminated with something such as a fungus, and they're waiting until the water clears it off before swallowing the flake? It still sounds like a good idea to get some fresh quality food, and see how they go. And how did they go with the crushed cooked de-shelled peas last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Have you ever seen a goldfish chew? No,because they lack the gears... Spitting is as close as they can get... at least that has been what I have seen/experienced... wetting flake before feeding... :slfg: First time I've heard of it. Never seen any fish in the wild have their food wetted and sunk for them. I have also never seen wild fish randomly floating down stream after surface-feeding... I doubt very much that top-feeding would have any adverse effect on a fish, unless the genotype is so inbred so as to cause mutation/s in the phenotype that make it unable to control it's sphincter or similar debilitating physical problem, leading it to these issues... Which is completely feasible with a species that has been line-bred and in-bred for hundreds of years... :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordhappy Posted March 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi folks, After initially rejecting the peas, they decided they were pretty great actually... after which I gave them some of their flake food, which they got into with great enthusiasm. Weird. I tried to get a photo of the white spot, but it didn't come out very well... I had to laugh (while saying "grrr") because as soon as the camera came out the crazy swimming and no staying still started. :facepalm: Not sure I'll be able to get a good pic after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 because as soon as the camera came out the crazy swimming and no staying still started. :slfg: i think it is a common complaint with fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 White spots on the tail of goldfish is not unusual and is not "whitespot" or a problem as far as I am aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi folks, After initially rejecting the peas, they decided they were pretty great actually... after which I gave them some of their flake food, which they got into with great enthusiasm. Perhaps they were just bored with the flake? :slfg: With luck after a day or so you'll see little cylinders of green poop, the processed peas being pooed. How poetic! You can vary their diet quite a bit and not rely so much on the store bought stuff which however is manufactured to give them their essential dietary needs (except fibre) and colour enhancers. So, cooked rice, slices of orange, lettuce etc. and live food like mosquito larvae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordhappy Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Green stringy poos... :gigl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodKing Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I found my Oranda one day with difficulty maintaining his/her orientation swimming upside down or side ways. I fed it some green peas, and switched to sinking pellets and soaking the flake. Fixed the problem straight away. I've got a Lionhead who has the same troubles. I just called him "Tippy" (Bit late on that comment ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Green stringy poos... :gigl: If it's solid, it's good. Better than a colonic washout! if it's stringy, long, and trailing... then the fish is lacking vegetable fibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordhappy Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ah, well it is trailing. If I feed them more of them should it help to fix this? Then maybe give them a couple of feeds a week of peas to help maintain things? Your advice is appreciated as I'm completely new to this idea of feeding fish things other than goldfish flakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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