hovmoller Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Toying with some ideas for cooling options... A chiller is obviously quite expensive and running it can't be cheap either.. so. Was thinking of burying several meters of pipe in the ground at x cm depth and then pump water through to cool it down. Has anyone got experience with this e.g. how much pipe at what depth for a certain size tank? The aim being to keep tank temp below 18dC year round. Any thoughts appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Setting up a ground source heat pump to cool is generally done when you build your house! You'd have to setup a heat exchanger ( don't want to circulate tank water under ground ), and you'd have to know also what the temperature of the ground is at your location. Do you need a new hot water cylinder? There are heat pump driven HWC, and they dump the cold air outside so perhaps loop through there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think you will ever get deep enough to cool your pipes cooler than what your tap water comes in at unless you set up a heat exchanger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSa Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Fact is at 1m in the ground the temperature is around 10°C all year round so if you put a large water tank in there we can asume the temperature will be the same after some time (days?, weeks?). You would like to keep the temperature at 18°C in your tank? Lets say your tank is 100l and the room temp. (and water at the start) is 25°C means you would need 47l of 10°C water in one hit to get it to 18°C. From then on you only need to keep it there and stopping it from getting any warmer. Means you only need 12l of your 10°C water to prevent your tank going from 18°C to 19°C. My 60l go from 20°C to 25°C in 12h and then back to 20°C again. How long that is for you depends on your (actuall tank size,) room, lights, ... But adding it all up and be on the save side I would say you need at least two 200l plastic drums joined together and 1m deep in the earth to source enough cold water for a 100l tank. Metal drums would be better for heat exchange but then you have to worry about corrosion and need a heat exchanger and two seperate watersystems. A very little pump hooked up to a thermostat could be used to pump cold water from the drums to your tank and pipe it back out there again for re-cooling if the tank gets to warm. Pretty sure there are some big flaws (water change?) but just playing around in my head Cheers, JaSa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 buried my 15,000 l coldwater marine setup .5 m in ground, never got over 16c all year 750 l set up used a 2 200l barrels inground to .5m never got over 18c used a slower flow on sump pump than normal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hmm interresting ideas.. don't want to circulate tank water under ground I don't see why not? my drinking water comes in a pipe buried underground but yes maybe cleaning this pipe could be an issue. What I was thinking was to have a pipe going from sump to underground, running for x meters and return to sump driven by a pump connected to a thermostat. Once temp goes over 18dC pump starts... etc.. just like a normal heater but obviously the other way around. So question is how much is needed to keep say 400L at 18dC.. Off to gather some in ground temp data :digH: :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSa Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Pipe must be really long to get you enough volume. 200m of 20mm pipe contains only 60l. 200m of 32mm hold 160l. But long pipes need strong pumps because of friction - and heaps of digging You are better off to get drums or other containers of some sort ... JaSa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 pipe to drum inground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 undrground pipe and drum... sounds like the next big thing in music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 buried Scottish bagpipe music :nilly: :happy1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#!CrunchBang Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 undrground pipe and drum... sounds like the next big thing in music Slipknot already did it. :slfg: Interesting cooling concept :smln: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Pipe must be really long to get you enough volume. 200m of 20mm pipe contains only 60l. 200m of 32mm hold 160l. But long pipes need strong pumps because of friction - and heaps of digging You are better off to get drums or other containers of some sort ... JaSa Volume wouldn't be the most important factor in heat transfer though. Volume would. Digging a hole for a 200L barrel would probably be a lot easier than 20 meters of 1m deep trench though. But you'd get some good exercise and lose heaps of weight... :digH: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 you could put the pump for the underground bit on a cheap temperature controller so it only pumped water through there if it needed too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 you could put the pump for the underground bit on a cheap temperature controller so it only pumped water through there if it needed too Yes this is exactly what I was thinking Sorry but I don't get the idea with a drum.. With a drum there would not be much volume to surface area and as such would not be very good in getting rid of the heat. We are planning some digging anyway to put a coil drain around the house so was thinking to run the pipes in that trench as well.. (two birds with one stone) I'm sure it can be done but it's more the scale of it I am unsure of. Length & size of pipe etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 a pipe may work better than a drum but you have to weigh it up the longer the pipe the bigger the pump and the more power you will use also material a glass container would be better than a plastic one due to glass not being as good of a thermal insulator as plastic but a 200l glass barrel is out of the question what im trying to say is different types of pipe or barrel may be better than others . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Use something like 65mm downpipe and any restriction will be basically nonexistent. And it only costs about $7/meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 How about a DIY chiller made from an old fridge? Should be far cheaper than an off the shelf unit, not too difficult to set up, more consistent and reliable when running, only downside is it would use a bit more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#!CrunchBang Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Could set the pipe up around the house with the inlet higher than the outlet with a gradual slope to get gravity doing some of the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 How about a DIY chiller made from an old fridge? Should be far cheaper than an off the shelf unit, not too difficult to set up, more consistent and reliable when running, only downside is it would use a bit more power. Yes thought about this as well.. but I don't actually mind the setup cost of a chiller.. or the pipework in ground for that matter.. but am more thinking of running cost (and the cool (no pun intended :lol: ) sustainable idea that it is). And as mentioned before I will probably be digging trenches around the house anyway. I guess I can try.... BTW I buried my temp logger at 15cm depth last night and during the last 24hrs temp has been steady on 17dg C. Will try deeper tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think the ground idea will work to a certain degree, and could even be used in conjunction with a chiller (DIY or store bought) to reduce the load, but even if your ground temperature is 10C the water is going to need a long exposure to get the desired drop in temperature because of the minimal difference. I know with my brewing the temp in the cupboard can fluctuate between 18C and 24C while the actual temp of the liquid in the fermenter (plastic barrel) stays far more consistent around 20-21C. As someone mentioned the plastic tube will have insulating qualities, and using something like copper (which would make the heat transfer far more effective) won't work with a marine tank. With regards to sustainability/reduced power consumption, I would seriously think about having a large tropical tank in the same room as the cold water marine. I know in my room it easily gets up to 30C (tanks and air temp) on a sunny day with all the lights and pumps running. If you want to try the ground cooling idea then I'd suggest making the cold water set up as efficient as possible; keep the room well insulated and reduce as many potential heat sources as possible (LED lighting, running an in-line pump in its own insulated and externally ventilated compartment, no tropical tanks in the same room, etc). A large reservoir kept underground where it can stay cool along with a hose coil heat exchanger type thing could work quite well, but I'm not sure if it would be enough if it has to consistently battle with the heaters in a 26C+ tropical tank. ps. I know all this may not be particularly practice with your planned set up, just throwing some ideas out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 ps. I know all this may not be particularly practice with your planned set up, just throwing some ideas out there. Hehe yes indeed.. thanks for the input anyway.. I think the cold water idea will have to wait until this tank gets a place in the living room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.