reef Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Initially when i added species i provided evidence that the species has been in the country prior to 1998 and provided research papers that they could not live in NZ water, also got feedback from experts so support this. After that ERMA was happy with providing invoices etc. For any species we wish to add these days, evidence is to be to ERMA that the fish can not live in nz waters, Then MAF has to do a risk assessment on what disease the fish might come with etc. It does not cost much, what can take time is to get evidence that the fish can not live in NZ. ERMA is pretty good as they take less than 3-4 months to asses a application, however MAF(MPI) can take up to 5 years as they consider it not important to add more fish. The best way is to get ERMA approval and complain to the Ombudsman if MAF take take to long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I have been out of town for work but thanks Darren for following up on this. There has been a lot 'revealed' discretely at these stakeholder meetings so we are being careful not breach confidentiality here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 There has been a lot 'revealed' discretely at these stakeholder meetings so we are being careful not breach confidentiality here. Fish list project post opened started 17 Nov 2010 Todays date 17 oct 2012. time elapse . 1 year 11 months Progress. Nil achievement . zero Sounds like it is really discretely moving going well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Your negative comments sure will help to get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 mumbo jumbo comments made by Jennifer is all smokes and mirrors. Why not just provide decent updates , its hardly confidential stuff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 It could easily be confidential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Reef I understand where you are coming from with those comments but I probably wouldn't have chosen those words. If you don't mind. It would be extremely helpful to me and I'm sure a lot of other people if you would take us through the process of adding say one species to the list. Perhaps you can use an example you have done yourself. A fish that is not high risk. The different steps, the information you provided about this species, cost etc. If you are willing to share that information I think we can all learn from your experience and it would keep a lot of people from making wild guesses to what this process is like. Thank you in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Reef, bullying will get you nowhere, I can assure you. You have been asked to help many times but you refuse so we have been on our own with only a couple of people volunteering their time in this project. Yes, it moves slowly when busy people have to make time and yes, it is hard to stay interested when people offer only criticism and little support. Your statements are incorrect about no progress being made though. We have spent our own time and money investigating this and the FNZAS is now the primary stakeholder for the fishkeeping hobby with regard to MPI and pet Biosecurity. As Darren alluded to, this project ground to a halt when he attended one of the Pet Biosecurity meetings in Wellington and learned that no species would be added to the fishlist in the future unless someone was willing to offer tens of thousands of dollars for scientific and cultural consultation as to the biosecurity risks. The easiest option is to go through the backdoor by proving that a specific fish was imported into NZ prior to the current fish list. If this proof could be provided from old import records, then they would consider adding it to the current list. The FNZAS will not be able to comment further on the contents of the meeting. The NZ Organisms Register is another option we can investigate but it won't happen since we have had no more than a couple of people come forward to help, and none of them are willing to lead the project. More than ever before, the FNZAS represents the common hobbyist and when the common hobbyist wants to progress with this by fund raising or investigating alternative options hopefully people will come forward to make it happen. Until then, this project is still closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 to be honest from what I have read and seen there is no way that people at FNZAS would be wasting time. everyone here is trying their best unfortunately its like asking "why am I not rich" and expecting everything to be fixed overnight. 2 years in politics is sweet crap all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 this project ground to a halt when he attended one of the Pet Biosecurity meetings in Wellington and learned that no species would be added to the fishlist in the future unless someone was willing to offer tens of thousands of dollars for scientific and cultural consultation as to the biosecurity risks. Nothing really new in that. Actually MAF/MPI have already done that on existing genus. Adding more species from existing genus needs to be approved by ERMA first then the rest should be not a problem. The easiest option is to go through the backdoor by proving that a specific fish was imported into NZ prior to the current fish list. If this proof could be provided from old import records, then they would consider adding it to the current list. Not a option as that avenue has been exhausted. You have been asked to help many times but you refuse so we have been on our own with only a couple of people volunteering their time in this project Really, my alzheimer's is bad but i would have remembered if the FNZAS committee approached me for help. The only way the Hobby will have a future is if it has a proactive voice, something like a Industry society. Group could be made up of a few importer/stores and FNZAS. A good way to kick thing off would to get some funding and maybe each importer/store/FNZAS could put in say $1K each. More funds could be accumulated maybe by a surcharge on fish sold. Funding could be used to pay for a consultant & helpers to do the work required to add fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 you would get quicker results by running for government. the entire industry is struggling atm and we are being held for ransom by the biosecurity laws, which will probably not change with their recent media coverage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony law Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 true,,evey thing is tighten at the moment,,and its not going to get any better for a while.. :spop: :mbh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 prove to your local poli that it will help them get votes... its not about money just votes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 no species would be added to the fishlist in the future unless someone was willing to offer tens of thousands of dollars for scientific and cultural consultation as to the biosecurity risks. Reef is it your opinion that expanding a genus to include more species does not fall under the above statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 you can add a new genus, if you get it approved by ERMA, then MAF will do a risk assessment when they have time, There has never been a cost in the past, however they could change it as they do not want imported fish. They are always looking to make it hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepsnana Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Adding more species from existing genus needs to be approved by ERMA first then the rest should be not a problem. Care to go into this in more detail? Seems pretty close to a one-liner... Living art Stop clowning around with your continues one liners. once a clown always a clown. your resentment is getting boring. The only way the Hobby will have a future is if it has a proactive voice, something like a Industry society. Group could be made up of a few importer/stores and FNZAS. A good way to kick thing off would to get some funding and maybe each importer/store/FNZAS could put in say $1K each. More funds could be accumulated maybe by a surcharge on fish sold. Funding could be used to pay for a consultant & helpers to do the work required to add fish. Where do you think all of this money is coming from? As mentioned earlier, stores and importers are not desperate to add to the list, as they will be one off profits and then on-going expenses (stocking nice fish that no1 can afford). They are better off selling bread and butter fish. We're not better off, but they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Care to go into this in more detail? Seems pretty close to a one-liner. There has been a lot 'revealed' discretely so i am being careful not breach confidentiality here. :rotf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepsnana Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Have your laugh. What we are seeing from you is a lot of complaining and no follow through or helpful input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Care to go into this in more detail? Seems pretty close to a one-liner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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