I am re-doing substrate in a 60cmX30cmX30cm that has an eheim 2008 pickup internal filter, as I have to move the tank. So am thinking about UG filters as now would be a good time to do it if I was going to...

Would it benefit from adding an undergravel filter? But there seems to be a real love/hate thing with UG filters out there? Would the 2008 be ok on its own (its rated for I think 60L and this is a 50-54L tank)?

I used to have an UG filter (which years ago I used in combo with an internal filter) but gave it away when I started back up with fishkeeping, as when I got my DD's AR380 the LFS seemed very negative about UG filters ...

Am just a bit worried there is not enough bio filtration with the 2008?

I plan on having a moderately planted tank, have a 24W PL tube on the tank (so whatever that amount of light will grow) ... but in saying that I have never been good with plants in general :oops: so probably at the end of the day will likely have very easy to grow plants anyway.

oh and planning on changing substrate to daltons washed sand and getting some panda corys (so cute!!)

i dont see why not many people have and still do use UG filters they work well i have evem seen a fishroom at a LFS that had small corner filters with only gravel in them so it must be a decent form of biological filtration

UG filters aren't ideal for planted tanks unfortunately. There seems to be debate one whether or not they are still a sufficient form of filtration. Phil Collis has used them in his fishroom so maybe he could shed some light on the matter?

I might be able to swap you some easy to grow plants next time you drop some lovely guppies off

I am a fan if them in small tanks and never had problems growing plants over the filter plates. The trick is to make sure the substrate is a decent depth

You can never have too much filtration.

i use one on my heavily planted 4.5 ft tank and have no problems at all.infact my plants do very well and i have no other form of filtration.

It makes sense to me as firstly the warm water is drawn down through the gravel and roots and secondly the fish waste is also drawn down to the roots of the plants.

I have UG in the 6 foot tank. The UG pipe is the perfect size to fit on to the CF2400 intake pipe so it goes through the UG and then to the big filter. It works really well and the plants love having all muck sucked in to their roots

ah but do they work with sand?

Short answer: No.

Thats the only reason I dont use UGF's anymore. I prefer finer substrates. I ran 2 tanks both with UGF for just under a year and found them to be very good.

oh and planning on changing substrate to daltons washed sand

so in this situation probably not good idea?

so in this situation probably not good idea?

The sand will fall through the grid.

The sand will fall through the grid.

I did think this might be the case.

Well 2008 will just have to do the job on its own then (seems to be doing ok so far anyway). Saves $20 I guess!

i used mine to prop up a little so i could make my sand bed seem deeper than it actually is. they work alright in a small tank, but in bigger tanks the area of sand vs amount of water becomes too great for them to be really effective.

one of those six to half a dozen type things, if it works for you, great, if not, then don't worry, would I personally spend money and go out and buy one for my 200L... No...

In a 60x30x30, why not, it isn't going to do any damage, put it that way...

I have UG in the 6 foot tank. The UG pipe is the perfect size to fit on to the CF2400 intake pipe so it goes through the UG and then to the big filter. It works really well and the plants love having all muck sucked in to their roots

I do this too, really efficient way of increasing the filtration. (two filters for the electricity of one!)

The sand will fall through the grid.

UG work good if filter pad is to be place 1st before topping up with sand,,

I am a real fan of them, they work well for me.. :bounce:

UG filters aren't ideal for planted tanks unfortunately. There seems to be debate one whether or not they are still a sufficient form of filtration. Phil Collis has used them in his fishroom so maybe he could shed some light on the matter?

i talked to him a bit when i last saw him about this. he said it was great and had no problems and kept the water movement in the tanks quite low for fry.

he uses pumice sand that was mined from the waikato river near tuakau but that plants shut down since but its very similar to daltons propagating sand. from what i rember he didnt have much in the way of ordaments or plants in the tanks though except breeding cones IIRC

ah you are not helping in the decision making LOL. back on the fence again, after I decided not to go UG....

I don't know, maybe its better to spend the money and upgrade to a eheim 2010?? Cos the UG's I saw were around $30 anyway....

I did worry a bit about the sand when I saw a good proportion was pumice, and had visions of it all floating to the surface :lol: So good to know it doesn't float!

I am putting off moving the tank, as I just bought a group of panda cory's that are now being quarantined in the space where the tank is going....

think i am going fish mad LOL dreamed about fish and filters last night! Somebody save me :roll:

if you want a planted tank, stay clear of an undergravel filter.

ok doke

will focus my finances on better above gravel filtration

Use an external canister filter. The flow will be too much for your tank, so get a type that allows you to ajust the flow. A small type of Eheim thermofilter will be good, because it has an integrated heating system so you won't need to clutter up your small tank with a thermostat. I've used undergravel filters, internal filters and canister filters before, and my favourite is the canister filters. They provide extremley good mechanical and biological filtration, and are easy to clean. Internal filters are hard to clean, because when you take them out I've found that when all the water comes out, so does the dirt in the filter. And undergravel filters - you can't use sand with them. I've also found it takes ages for bacteria to become established, so at first they provide no filtration.

Undergravel filters work on the same principle as any other filter. They are a media for the housing of bacteria that operate the nitrogen cycle in conjunction with physical filtration which collects some of the gunge that continues to feed those bacteria. I had a fish house with many tanks that were all operating with UG filters and they worked well. The only problem was sterilizing the system if there had been a disease. In the end I went to bare bottom tanks, box filters and reverse flow diatom filters (which I think are great but no longer seem to be available).

I loved my UG filter, I don't understand all the hate!

My first tank, a 90l ran on on. Way less hassle than a canister. And yes, it had lots of plants and they grew fine. (Though I potted the bigger ones like the sword anyway)

This tank is going into my 7yo daughters bedroom so an external canister filter is out. I have one in the lounge tank and I agree that they are great, but I need something that cannot potentially drain the tank to the floor if a kid decides to turn a lever or two out of curiosity.

And is far cheaper than a canister