Jaide Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Would it be feasible to run a 3 foot tank (about 180 litres) without a filter that contains: 2x silver dollars 3x angels 6x khuli loaches 6x cories 1x BN If so, how often would I need to do a water change/gravel clean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Would you have an air stone / bubble line? anything that make any water movement? I wouldn't run a tank that big with out a filter but if you had to my guess would be 2 water changes a week. Your filter die or is this just a project your looking at doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaide Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 The filter works fine, but they're a pain - much easier and quicker to simply gravel-clean and water-change. My filter doesn't provide enough air-flow so I have to add an airstone to the tank as well - then thought I may as well get rid of the stupid thing :roll: I have 2 smaller tanks with fish with no filter or airstone and they're fine - just wanted to check it would be feasible for a bigger tank with more fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 You don't have to have a filter, they are a relatively new invention, but with that bioload you would need daily water changes. Filter-free tanks succeed because they are heavily planted with very low stocking levels. The silver dollars mean you would not be heavily planted for long! :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k1w1y2k Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Have you thought of using an undergravel filter, easy to use, and you get the air flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I'd plant it up, get rid of the silver dollars, and have some less messy fishies in there, and 2 - 3 water changes a week would be ok. Or, use a filter, but put filter wool over the intake. Then, instead of cleaning the filter, just change/rinse the filter wool every few weeks. Much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaide Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Believe it or not, the dollars don't eat the plants much, the plants tend to die as they don't have enough light/CO2 whatever to grow I think - the leaves drop off and float around the tank. I should probably get some plants that are hardy and don't need fussing with CO2 and bright lighting - any suggestions would be greatly appreciated Anyway, I wouldn't get rid of fish, I love them all - they're my babies @ Kiwi - I have sand as a substrate, not gravel though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 If you want to try it without a filter I'd suggest removing the silver dollars and cutting the angels back to 2. You don't absolutely need a filter, but it gives you the ability to handle a MUCH higher bioload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.qian Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I don't understand why filters can be a pain? I have an external filter, I clean it approximately once every 6 weeks, with weekly water changes. I think a filter is crucial, especially for a tank this size, without a filter you will likely run into various problems with water quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbreeder Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 ive got a 2 foot tank that is going to be planted in dwarf sag with up to 7 (max if they all girls) female fighters. not sure what filter to use as my fighters hate currents. wasnt going to worry about a filter just do weekly changes, coz the plants should help it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookie Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 is this a wind up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaide Posted March 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I don't understand why filters can be a pain? I have an external filter, I clean it approximately once every 6 weeks, with weekly water changes. I think a filter is crucial, especially for a tank this size, without a filter you will likely run into various problems with water quality. It's a pain because it doesn't work properly - it's always getting filled with air and I'm tried of fiddling around trying to get the thing to run properly. I had to add an oxygen stone because the filter is not generating enough movement. And, they are a pain to pull apart and clean out. I would prefer to do regular water/gravel cleans than muck around with it anymore. I don't think I need plants if I have an oxygen stone. *ignores Snookies comment* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 what type of filter is it? and what brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I would like the others use a filter to me it is just not worth the risk. BUT around 10 years ago when I first got into fish I went on a tank crawl to Napier and met a guy who had a tank with fish in it and no filter, the tank was wall to wall plants and had fish in in apparently but couldn't see them for all the plants, think he said the tank had been going for no problems with only regular water changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I just attemted (unsuccessfully) to breed cherry barbs outside in a large plastic container without a filter. The adult fish didn't seem to suffer any ill effects, but I only had a few fish in a lot of water, and also had plenty of plants. I would suggest you would need to keep the number and size of fish pretty low compared to what we're used to seeing in a filtered tank if you want to maintain good water quality. If I were to try an experiment like this, I would start off with just a few small fish and build up the bioload gradually. Personally I would also have the tank heavily planted, because the plants help to keep everything in equilibrium. I wouldn't (personally) attempt it in a tank that sounds quite fully stocked and has no live plants. Just my opinion. Rather than doing away with the filter completely, how about trying a different kind of filter? Even a small, cheap hang-on-back type would be better than nothing at all, and I would think that some filtering would be better than none. I'm also interested in what kind of filter you currently have. Surely you could convert it into something that just moves the water around the tank rather than getting rid of it? Moving water is likely to stay good much longer than still water, and the movement will help keep the temperature even throughout the tank, and grow beneficial microorganisms in the gravel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I have the same question as Wok, what kind of filter??? I only have hang on the back and I don't find them difficult to maintain but it sounds as if you are having trouble with yours??? Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver21 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 ild just go with a simple undergravel filter, still get a small amount of movement and lots of airation, just a gravelvac now and then will do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Id just go with a Internal. They are cheap, They can be fairly compact and they do a good job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Most of the tank in my fish room don't have filters, they are small max size would be 70ltrs. As others have said you can get away with not haveing filters depending on your bioload and how good you are at looking for signs of problems. I remember going to see a discus breeding setup a long time ago. The chap had 6foot tanks split in two with gravel and plants and between 2 - 6 adult discus in each. Changed water about once a week. Very happy fish and the tanks looked great. His rasing tanks also had no filters but he did a lot of changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaide Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 It's an Eheim Classic external filter - so is fiddly to take apart to clean out. I do have a new internal sponge filter I could try - I originally bought that for my small tanks but run them without filters instead. It's just that internal filters look ugly - but I guess I could hide it somehow so will give that a go. Thanks for the advice everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaide Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Oh, does anyone have any suggestions on what plants I could add that are low maintenance and don't require loads of light? Seems the current plants I have (no idea what they are) aren't liking it in there as they're dropping their leaves (believe it or not, my silvers don't eat them - probably because they get a lot of lettuce to eat regularly) I have a lilly-type plant in there which seems to be doing ok, and some java fern but the rest drop their leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Indian fern grows pretty well in my tanks and doesn't seem to need too much light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 low light plants include java fern and anubias species. Indian fern does well in most tanks, and you can try dwarf val, although it does best with good lighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 It's an Eheim Classic external filter - so is fiddly to take apart to clean out. I do have a new internal sponge filter I could try - I originally bought that for my small tanks but run them without filters instead. It's just that internal filters look ugly - but I guess I could hide it somehow so will give that a go. Thanks for the advice everyone You don't need to take it apart to "clean" it. Eheim's especially classics should only be cleaned when (as has happen to yours) the flow drops off. Only parts you need to open up is the impeller, washing the media can be done through backwashing as per eheim's website; http://www.eheimasiapacific.com/prod_e_ ... assic.html then run a brush through the hoses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Jaide, not sure if I can sway your decision, but personally I would not set up any tank without a filter, even a sponge filter in the corner is better than nothing. To me, the main purpose of the filter isn't to generate water movement (an air stone will probably do that more efficiently) but to maintain stable and safe water conditions for the fish. I hate meddling with my filters, and I only give them a rinse once in a long while, and my water readings are still looking fine. Imagine being in a room. The air inside is only replaced once a week. Over the course of the week, minute amounts of carbon monoxide are being released into the room. At the end of the week, new air in the room. It's pretty much that way with your tanks. Being closed environments, ammonia in the water has no way to get out without the beneficial bacteria. Sure, they won't die unless the ammonia goes through the roof (and that probably won't happen with weekly water changes), but they won't like the ammonia 'build-up' and 'reset' every week. They also won't be as comfortable in their environment and might not live as long. Waddya say? Give the ol' filters another go? For your babies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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