jn Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I'm might be considering buying a heater to keep my tank in the 'cool' rather than 'cold' range over winter . Tank is getting down to about 12 degrees and we're not at the coldest part of winter yet! My current fish don't mind one bit BUT.. I'm so tempted to buy some Borneo suckers and am wondering how to keep the tank around 15 degs. minimum? ( I could move to a warmer house.. that would solve lots of problems but might be a bit drastic!!) From what I can tell alot of the heaters start at 17-18 degrees? I don't want the tank to be 'warm'. Should I just buy a smaller heater? OR would that just make it work too hard? (tank would be an ar510 or 620 so normally would call for about 100W I guess?) Another option might be to run the heater on a timer so it only ran part of the time (ie: programmed to turn off before it reaches 17-18?) Are there heaters that work in the lower range of temps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 You used to be able to get 50watt heaters.. and 100watt are certainly still available. Thing is... you give no details. A 100W heater in a 300 litre tank would do nothing... whereas the same heater in a 40litre tank would be possibly fine. Then there's conditions... Like tank location.. drafty room.. and in this case you might consider insulating around the non-viewing sides with styrene.. which may just hold the level where you want it. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 eh? what happened to my comment? or did i not do it properly? lol Anyway, have you tryed insulating the tank with polystyrene? might keep the temp up that little bit more..... otherwise yea, just get a heater and set it to the loweest temp. what fish you got in there? just WCMM? if so, they will be sweet at a bit higher temp than 15 anywho so it will be all good..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I'm getting a new tank soon which will either be an AR510 or AR620 as I mentioned...perhaps wrongly assumed that these were well known tank sizes. They're 70-90L I guess. (Hence the assumption that typically 100w is what tropical keepers would use?) The room is cold. Probably not too draughty but gets bugger all sun and is typically closed off from the rest of the house. My current tank is about 30L and that's the one that's getting cold. I can only assume a bigger tank would tend to sit around the same temp without a heater, if not colder. The small tank does warm up to about 16 sometimes, usually in the evening after the logburner has been going in the other room, but only on some nights. I assume a bigger tank would not warm as much in the same period of time, and hence would possibly be colder in the mornings having started from a cooler temp at night? Tanks current location means it gets viewed from 3 sides so polystyrene probably isn't a good choice for me. What else would you need to know? It is hard on a heater to have it working constantly? (like if I had a 55w, and it always tried to keep the temp at 18 it would never turn off) I know I could just buy the 100w and settle for a warmer tank but I don't like wasting electricity and really don't need the water to be warm. I know the fish would be ok but I'm a terrible cheapskate by nature and was just wondering what the most miserly of keeping the tank a wee bit warmer was I suspect most of you will just assume I'm being wierd (which would probably be true!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I'm getting a new tank soon which will either be an AR510 or AR620 as I mentioned...perhaps wrongly assumed that these were well known tank sizes. They're 70-90L I guess. (Hence the assumption that typically 100w is what tropical keepers would use?) I know I could just buy the 100w and settle for a warmer tank but I don't like wasting electricity and really don't need the water to be warm. I know the fish would be ok but I'm a terrible cheapskate by nature and was just wondering what the most miserly of keeping the tank a wee bit warmer was heaters are available in 25 & 50 watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 What kind of fish are you keeping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I've just got WCMM and some Jordanella floridae (for whom I would not buy a heater..they're sweet as in these temps) but I wanted some Borneo suckers who can handle cool but maybe not quite as cold as my tank is getting without getting stressed. Maybe a 25w would just keep the chill off But nobody's mentioned if its bad for a heater to be forever heating due to the tank never reaching the minimum thermostat setting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Maybe a 25w would just keep the chill off But nobody's mentioned if its bad for a heater to be forever heating due to the tank never reaching the minimum thermostat setting? it will be constantly heating which will reduce the life of the element, you should get one that is suited to litres you have. just see how low the settings will go & if that suits what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 In my experience most heaters set at 18 deg will maintain a temperature way above that. They are notoriously innacurate at the bottom of the scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilson Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 just to let the cat among the pigeon's i dont think you need a heater my wcmm are sitting in 12 deg tank right now they seem to like it i think Borneo suckers also like the cold JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted June 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Hey Wilson Yup.. as I said, my WCMM's and the flag fish I bought are perfectly happy in 12 degs. and I'm sure they'll also be fine if the temp drops a bit more as we get to the coldest part of the year! I actually asked Janelle before I posted this topic how her Borneo Suckers were getting on with the colder temps. She said they were going pale and didn't seem to be appreciating it. Her tank is also getting down to 12'ish, hence my concern. She thought she might be needing a heater. I'm sure they wouldn't mind mind 15'ish which in a more modern house wouldn't be a problem without a heater :oops: :roll: If there's no practical way to just 'slightly' warm my tank I think I'll just have to give the Borneo suckers a miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilson Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 hmmm im unsure then ill ask john im going there now :lol: i know there are some Borneo Suckers in the shop so ill ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted June 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 That would be great Wilson I saw his post about them having some in and I'm hoping to get my tank new tank this week so was kind of hoping to get some. Do let me know what you find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 White clouds come from the area around the White cloud mountains in China where it is extremely cold so 12 degrees will not worry them at all. I have kept them in outside ponds in Christchuch which froze over in the winter and they were OK. If you observe them you should find that they prefer cold temperatures and their colours are more intense in the cold. They are not a tropical fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Heh, everyone else always says the opposite. That mountain minnows prefer warmer and their colors are more intense in warm water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afrikan Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Borneo Suckers certainly like a cooler tropical temp but "cold" would definately upset them so you are doing the right thing putting a heater in to bump the temp up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 They must have been talking to Mrs Google Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 We had a club member who bred wcmms in large numbers several years ago. He had both tropical and cold set-ups for them. He always maintained the tropical ones were more highly coloured and bred more than those in cold water. Odd since, as mentioned, they come from very cold waters originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 When I was keeping them in a pond and heated tanks I found the had better colours when cold but there was only a limited time in the summer that they would breed. I also found that they were easy to convert from hot to cold but not so easy the other way. Mind you I have glasses now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 I keep WCMM's in an outside pond and I've kept them in a tropical tank before too, my experiences coincide with alanmin's - that they're much more colourful when in cold water. Mine breed most of the year except the dead of winter, but that's probably just because auckland is a bit warmer than christchurch. In my experience borneo suckers do fine in cold water, not just cool. Yes they can survive in tropical tanks, but it doesn't make them tropical fish just because they're sometimes (mistakenly) sold as such. Goldfish can survive in tropical tanks, so can wcmm's and so can a lot of cold water fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilson Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 well put HummingBird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 I jsut have them sitting in a tank on the window ledge inside the house with no heaters. Breed reasonably well too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted June 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Hey Wok. You've got the Borneo suckers in the tank by a window or the WCMM? Have you got a thermometer in there? Any idea of the minimum temp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazara Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Another option would be a propogating heat pad (for seedlings etc.) They are very low wattage and might be enough to bump the temp a little. Typically they are rated 10 watts - will heat a seed tray to 25*c so it would struggle to get a 100L tank that high, but I believe they are a non-thermostat design, just constant heat so it wont burn out. I have no experience with using them under tanks, but maybee someone else has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted July 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Oh yeah. I have a pet heat pad. They indeed run with no thermostat (kind of crazy though for an animal I mean once they're tucked into a bed and warm the heat really accumulates!!) I used it for an injured cat and ran it on a timer so it would pulse on and off otherwise it got too hot for the poor thing! I suppose it could get leaned up against the back of a tank with a sheet of polystyrene behind it. Still haven't decided to get the suckers though (but my new trank should be in my eager hands by this weekend! Yay!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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