HELP! Rampant fungus sludge - my own personal horror movie

[zombieworm]

Two of my tanks have been overrun by a rampant white fungus that creates a thick sludge. I am trying a fungal treatment, but it requires treating for 7 days before doing a water change. Problem is that I can't go more than 3 days without doing a water change, as by that time the sludge is a centimeter thick and I have bottom dwelling fish. Within an hour of cleaning, it has started up again. This fungus stuff is killing my plants, and distressing my fish (and me!).

I have cut feeding down to a bare minimum without starving the fish, but it has made no difference at all to the rate of growth. 

Has anyone else had this kind if problem?

Sorry no pics of big gravel substrate tank - just cleaned it, but have added picks of sand substrate tank. 1 day after cleaning.

None of my other tank have the problem.

[livingart]

Is it te same substrate in both tanks?

Have you tried siphoning it out

 

[zombieworm]

As indicated in the post, one is gravel substrate, one is sand. As I said in the post, within 3days of cleaning (i.e. siphoning out the muck and cleaning the substrate) it is a cm thick again, and the photos are of the sand substrate one day after cleaning. 

[Adrienne]

What are you using for filtration and what are your tank parameters?

[zombieworm]

Both tanks are AquaOne, and have the overhead biofilters. One is a 400 litre, one is a 160 litre. I have two other 160 litre AquaOne tanks, a 21 litre AquaOne, an AquaOne Betta duo, a 165 litre Blue Planet, and a 1200mm AquaOne turtle tank, all with biofilters, but they are not infected. All the tanks except the Blue Planet (which is a cichlid tank) are heavily planted.

The 400 ltr, and all 3 160 ltr tanks also have 24W UV filters, and Purigen in the overhead filter (although the Purigen, along with the charcoal in the filters, have been removed in the infected tanks during treatment).

All the tanks are treated exactly the same in regards to cleaning, water treatment, etc,  but only those two tanks have the issue. It hit both tanks suddenly about two months ago, and I haven't been able to get rid of it.

The really worrying part for me is that the 400 ltr tank has all my most exotic and expensive fish - discus, elephant nose, zebra placos, farlowella, african butterfly fish, as well as spotted talking catfish, chocolate striped talking catfish, and a featherfin syndontis. Also 3 fully grown psycho yoyo loaches - they are a riot to watch, and a few serpae tetras.

In the big tank one of the tetras has fungus on the base of his tail and on his lower lip (do fish have lips?), but all the other fish are fine, and all the fish in the other tank are also fine.

For both tanks, nitrite is 0, nitrate is between 7.5 and 10, and ammonia is 0.

Edited May 25, 2016 by zombieworm

[Poppie]

Have you thought about completely removing all of the infected substrate, cleaning the tank  and replacing with new stuff? I've just changed out my 400L tanks substrate and it only took 1 day to do. 

[zombieworm]

I don't think that is really an option in this instance. It is also on the plants and rocks, and is probably in the large pieces of driftwood. I would have to completely drain the tank, throw out the plants, and sterilize everything to be sure that it didn't return. Anything less would just end up being a lot of effort for no real return, since the fungus would only start up again if everything wasn't discarded or sterilized. 

Meanwhile, I have no place to put the fish while all that is happening. 

It would also have to be done with the other tank as well (remember, there are 2 tanks infected).

And while none of the other tanks are infected, there is no guarantee that they won't become infected at some point, or that the first two wouldn't get reinfected at some point. 

It would be far better to find a way to effectively deal with the fungus.

But thanks for the suggestion

At some point, I do actually want to change to a sand substrate for the benefit of the elephant nose and the catfish, so nice to know it should only take a day. Will definitely wait until the fungus is dealt with though. 

[Adrienne]

Is there any difference in what you are feeding in those two tanks?  

I don't suppose you have access to a microscope so you could have a really good close up look at it.

[zombieworm]

No, all 3 160 ltr tanks get exactly the same thing, but only one is infected, and the 400 ltr gets the same food plus some extra types to cater for the African butterfly fish and the elephant nose. 

One of the 160 ltr tanks - treated the same as all the others - is so stable that it only needs a water change once a month, I never have to siphon the sand substrate - it is always beautifully clean - and I never have to clean the inside glass. There is no algae on any plants, wood, glass, or anything. Nitrate is always 0, nitrite under 10, and it takes a month to 6 weeks before the ammonia necessitates a water change. Really wish I knew what was different about it! The only thing different was the initial setup. That was the only tank I fully stocked the day I set it up. All the other tanks were cycled first and stocked slowly. 

At this point I'm not really interested in what it looks like or even where it came from  (I doubt it could be know for certain anyway), I just want to know how to effectively deal with it. The rest I can consider later.

[Adrienne]

I understand that but knowing where it came from and letting us know what it looks like might help ID it, and ultimately get some suggestions how to deal with it.  I have to admit I am stumped.  Generally new tank syndrome shows as milky tank water (bacterial bloom) or brown algae but yours appears greyish white in the photos.  

What did you use to cycle it so you could fully stock it immediately - water from an existing tank and filter media or did you use prime and continue to do so until your readings came to 0?

Any plastic ornaments or hosing inside the tank which have not been purchased from an aquatics shop?

My only suggestion would be to leave it for a week, something has to be feeding it for it to continue to grow so after a week the nutrients may have been exhausted and you will see it reduce.  I realise you have bottom dwelling fish but unless they are clearly becoming stressed I would wait.  Also another suggestion which you may already have done - black the tank out - no light for the week.

[zombieworm]

These are NOT new tanks. Both have been set up for quite some time. 

NEITHER of these are the tank I fully stocked immediately. The one I stocked immediately is the tank that is the most stable, and that particular tank is not new either. It has also been running for quite some time. When I set that one up, I used Prime to treat the water when it was put into the tank, that was in the afternoon, left it overnight to reach the right temperature, then put the fish in it in the morning. From there the tank cycled naturally, and there were no problems with it at all, no new tank syndrome, no stressed or sick fish resulted. The tank was quite heavily planted at the time of setup, so I think that may have been an important factor. 

The two tanks that are infected are the very first one I set up, and the very last one.

All the ornaments in all the tanks were purchased new from pet shops. The fish and plants have come from a variety of sources, some private. That is most likely how it came in. However, fish plants and ornaments have been swapped around between tanks over time, but only the two tanks are infected. 

In the beginning I did leave it a week at a time before water changes, but it didn't die off, and the fish got really stressed. 

 

[Colour_genes]

Do you know the pH and hardness of the water in those tanks ( especially compared to the other non-infected tanks)?

I'm wondering if you have an overgrowth of saprolegnia, which has spores that can 'lie in wait' in the water column or the biofilter, and prefers water with low pH and hardness.

It seems to be implicated in similar 'white fuzz' problems others have had. Try reading this link - the bit about sapro is halfway down the article - and there are further references as well.

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html

Hope that helps in some way

[Shilo]

The fish are healthy and not infected so don't think it is Columnaris.   But it does look like exactly like cyanobacteria (blue green algae) apart from of course its white.  The growth rate and the fact that the water quality is Ok certainly points to BGA. 

Instead of treating it as a fungus I would temporarily rehouse the fish even if it is in a plastic storage container with a air pump and syphon up as much as possible.  Lower the water level until just the tops of the plants are covered then blitz the tank with some hydrogen peroxide.  Keep the water pumping through the filter but it will mean taking some media from your good tanks to stop the tank recycling.  After a couple of yours drain the rest of the water (inc that in the filter) to get rid of the dead stuff and avoid other problems and swap out 1/2 filter media as above. Old media could be cleaned and put back into the good tanks filters. Fill the tank up again and acclimatise the fish to the new water.  

Dosing the tanks with antibiotics would be another option but I think what we used to use (starts with "e") is no longer available?  Either way treat it as a blue green algae bloom even if its not blue or green or an algae.... 

Never done this in such a radical way myself, instead I have only spot treated BGA with hydrogen peroxide but by the look of those tanks it will need more then spot treatment. 

[zombieworm]

Thank you to both Colour_genes and Shilo for your posts. Both have been helpful.

As far as the ph goes - I will certainly look into that. The idea does have merit. Of the large tanks that are clear, one is the cichlid tank, which I know has high ph because it has carbonate rocks and aragonite sand, and the 'perfect' tank does has some aragonite sand mixed in with the substrate sand. The turtle tank has a new calcium block put in every two weeks (they would probably last longer if one of the turtles didn't eat them. Dante doesn't care one way or the other, but Lydia thinks they are candy). With the 400 ltr tank - one of the two infected tanks, I am careful not to put anything in it that might raise the ph as most of the fish in it do better in low ph - e.g. the discus. The one fish that is infected does have the type of symptom/manifestation described. It may be part of the problem.

Overall though, Shilo's thoughts on it are coming up trumps. I have managed to find a pic of a white cyanobacteria infestation in an aquarium when googling images. The pic also has red mixed in with it where mine doesn't, but it does look very similar. Also the description of the fish behavior is what I am seeing in my tank - the fish being sluggish. My wonderfully psychotic yoyo loaches are decidedly not so psychotic any more. They seem to spend much of the day sleeping rather than going burko all day like they used to, which has had me worried, and the rest of the fish have also become much less active. Also the discus hang at the top like fish do when there is an ammonia spike (but not gasping, just hanging there) but there is no ammonia - another common behavior in the presence of CB.

Antibiotics are definately out. The only faster way to kill an elephant nose is to knock it on the head, and I'd really rather no see Petey and his band of pirates (my small group of elephant nose - they are all named after pirates) floating at the top of the tank. I'm pretty sure the butterfly fish wouldn't be too impressed either.

Sadly, I do not have any way to house the number - or size - fish I have, to follow your idea for treatment, and even if I did, I think it would probably be too difficult for me to do what you have suggested in my current state of health. I have spent the last 3 years battling cancer and dealing with the aftermath of surgery, and a single round of chemo which nearly killed me and has taken 8 months to recover from and left me with permanent nerve damage in my extremeties. Life happens, we live with it, no big deal. But it does limit my ability to do anything that is labour intensive over an extended period. Regular tank maintainance is fine. Even a major clean or substrate change is fine - I can keep the filter and heater going, and do it slowly over a few hours, or in stages across a few days.

I have found a possible way of dealing with it though on fishlore.com that could be promising. It involves lots of cleaning and water changes, and no lights for a couple of weeks, but definately do-able. I will give it a try. So tomorrow will be the big clean out after 4 days of treating with fungus stuff and not cleaning (eewww!), and we'll be go to go to try the anti-cyanobacteria campaign 

Thanks all.

[Shilo]

Keep some hydrogen peroxide at hand anyway.  If after the no light / water changing schedule it starts to appear again, spot it with the peroxide as soon as you see any sign of it.  Just load a small syringe (no needle) with the peroxide and squirt a small bit directly onto the BGA under the water.  Hydrogen peroxide is safe for your fish used this way (so long as its not squirted on them) since it degrades to oxygen and water as soon as it touches organics.  But it will kill bacteria which BGA is. 

Good luck!

[Caryl]

I think Shilo might be closest to the answer with cyano. Why it has taken off in two tanks i don't know but when I had the green version I scooped out then siphoned up as much as possible then blacked out the tank for several days. I was also able, as a last resort, to use erythromycin which is, unfortunately, no longer available. Unless you find the cause though it will probably keep coming back.

I have never seen it look like those pics though!

Do you belong to the Hawkes Bay Aquarium Society? They may have someone able to help you as they will have some experienced members (and helpful contacts at the Napier Aquarium).

Edited May 30, 2016 by Caryl

[zombieworm]

Good morning all. Stay tuned for the next episode of " The tanks with the Zombie Fungus" (that's what I have decided to call it. OK, so it probably isn't a fungus, but blue green algae isn't blue or green or an algae, so there's precedent - lol). 

The National Aquarium has now weighed. They don't know what it is either. I mentioned that cyanobacteria had been put forward, they said if it is then it is not a standard run of the mill one. But one of the people there has dealt with something that looks similar a couple times before, and swapping out the substrate did the trick.

Kudos to forum member Poppie, looks like you were on to something. 

Meanwhile, the 7 days fungal treatment was up for the smaller sand substrate tank on the 28th, so I siphoned the top layer of sand off, carefully cleaned out all the scum, poured boiling water over it, and returned it to the tank. It has been 3 days now, and no sign of return yet - so far so good,  here's hoping. And before anyone quips "why didn't you try that earlier", I did. But it returned within a day. So I'm thinking a combination of 3 weeks reduced feeding, 1 week fungal treatment, and the boiling water sterilization has done it. 

Last time it returned after the boiling water, it started slowly, before picking up speed and rampaging across the tank like a zombie hoard. Being clear for three days now, if it does come back it will definitely start slow, so I will follow through with Shilo's suggestion of spot treatment with hydrogen peroxide. Thanks for that Shilo,  it is good to know I can safely do that.

The big tank is more of a problem because the substrate is a large gravel type. This stuff is notorious for trapping crap. That's probably why it was so much more rampant. Two hours of thorough cleaning still doesn't get it all, because it gets under the large stone slabs, in the gravel in the rock caves, and under and in amongst the plants. 

So this is now the plan of attack: swap out the substrate. Because of my health it will take 3 days, but it is doable. Day one take out all the large stone slabs, stones, caves, and ornaments, scrub them down and pour boiling water over them. Carefully remove and clean all the plants, put them in a large bucket of water. Day two remove all the gravel (by hand). Keep the large piece of driftwood in there so all the bottom dwellers have something to congregate on besides the crap covered glass bottom. Let the crap settle overnight. Day three siphon out the crap, put the new sand substrate in, and spend the day putting back all the rocks, ornaments, and plants.

If it does make a return, it moves slower through sand substrate so I can spot treat it with the hydrogen peroxide. Knowing that it can be spot treated has made all the difference. It will make it worth the effort to swap out the substrate, risking a possible return. 

And one more thing worth noting - just one day of no lights has started to impact on it. Has definitely slowed it down. Good to know.

Hopefully all this will be of use to someone else in the future if they ever find themselves in a similar predicament. 

I will let you all know how it goes. Cheers, and thank you to all who have contributed 

[gligor]

What a nightmare that must be. Good luck with the process and let us know how it goes!

[zombieworm]

Hello all. The next installment of "The tanks with the Zombie Fungus" is here.

With the smaller tank which I just sterilized the top layer, within a week it did come back - with a vengeance. I thought it would start slow, but within two days, it had spread across half the tank. Then suddenly it stopped,  then started dying off. The tank now seems clear. No idea what happened. Not complaining, but it sure would be nice to know what is going on. 

With the big tank, I swapped out the substrate, putting in a new sand substrate. The fish just adore the sand over the large gravel, and the placos and 3 types of catfish are out and about a lot now, where I hardly ever saw them before. As far as the mysterious gunge goes, it hasn't come back, so the substrate swap seems to have worked. The plants are growing beautifully, instead of rotting at the base, and the loaches and discus are back to their usual active selves again.

[gligor]

Sounds like a successful mission! Well done. Glad to hear it's over and now you can enjoy your fishies in peace. 

[Adrienne]

Sounding much better.  Maybe with the first tank there was a small bit of whatever it was left in the tank which took off, but because of the fact you had cleaned it away so well it ran out of its food/nutrient source and died.  Anyway glad to know you are sorted