Adrienne Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 I was putting another thing out there to be thought about. What I was getting at was that if your heater was set on 25 but running 27 and you just turned the tap on to hot without checking the temp it is possible that the tank water became too hot for your fish to handle. Likewise if your tank is running cool and you put too much cold in. Humans, at certain times of the year are more prone to illness caused by stress etc and I would be surprised if fish are not. As to a link between you all I would say its 50/50 as to a link or coincidence but unless you can get a fish or preferably two from different sources tested you wont know. The other thing to consider is nets or other equipment shared between tanks (not in Bretts case though as it obviously is just the one tank), if there is an bacteria present it could remain on the nets for some time before being transferred to other fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 I was putting another thing out there to be thought about. What I was getting at was that if your heater was set on 25 but running 27 and you just turned the tap on to hot without checking the temp it is possible that the tank water became too hot for your fish to handle. Likewise if your tank is running cool and you put too much cold in. Humans, at certain times of the year are more prone to illness caused by stress etc and I would be surprised if fish are not. As to a link between you all I would say its 50/50 as to a link or coincidence but unless you can get a fish or preferably two from different sources tested you wont know. The other thing to consider is nets or other equipment shared between tanks (not in Bretts case though as it obviously is just the one tank), if there is an bacteria present it could remain on the nets for some time before being transferred to other fish. if this was the case wouldn't all the fish die at the same time? instead of fish randomly dying at random times and all the other fish being totally sweet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 which at the same time, water temp or nets? Nets not necessarily - a bit like whitespot, the cysts are always present but not all fish will get it at the same time. Its when immunity is low that it presents, so some fish would have more resistance to a bacteria carried by a net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Perhaps those who want to investigate this issue construct some spreadsheets of where you live, water supply, what fish, where purchased, how long in your tank, what you're using to feed them, water parameters, symptoms and time to death etc. And then collate all the data to see what the pattern is if any. Oh yeah, and if you use any fertilizers or other additives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Might be all from the same importer .... or the putative infection has been transferred from one fish purchased from the common store, to other fish in the tank. But hey, I just deal with human disease including looks like some grumpy ones. would low D.O. at some stage while in transit have damaged their gills to different levels and thus led to staged deaths is it possible also that at some stage while in transit or tanks that they have been in that through poor management that a bacteria may have entered their environment also is it possible also that at some stage while in transit or tanks that they have been that over medication has damaged liver, kidneys etc and now is showing as staggered deaths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Perhaps those who want to investigate this issue construct some spreadsheets of where you live, water supply, what fish, where purchased, how long in your tank, what you're using to feed them, water parameters, symptoms and time to death etc. And then collate all the data to see what the pattern is if any. a very good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 yes I agree - a very good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 I was putting another thing out there to be thought about. What I was getting at was that if your heater was set on 25 but running 27 and you just turned the tap on to hot without checking the temp it is possible that the tank water became too hot for your fish to handle. Likewise if your tank is running cool and you put too much cold in. Humans, at certain times of the year are more prone to illness caused by stress etc and I would be surprised if fish are not. As to a link between you all I would say its 50/50 as to a link or coincidence but unless you can get a fish or preferably two from different sources tested you wont know. The other thing to consider is nets or other equipment shared between tanks (not in Bretts case though as it obviously is just the one tank), if there is an bacteria present it could remain on the nets for some time before being transferred to other fish. thats fine - sorry if my post was a bit dismissive, it wasn't meaning to, appreciate the input into working out what it could be I only had the one tank running too, it wasn't untill i moved after that entire tank was killed off that i started my loach tank i s=currently have. so its not a sharing nets/equipment here too - and the fish sharing was after this all started (I'm pretty sure my yellows died before i took your hybrids eh disgustipated?) they died jan ish om pretty sure i took your hybrids before your birthday and after jan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 sounds about right, but you know what my memory is like... it's why i relate to fish so well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Perhaps those who want to investigate this issue construct some spreadsheets of where you live, water supply, what fish, where purchased, how long in your tank, what you're using to feed them, water parameters, symptoms and time to death etc. And then collate all the data to see what the pattern is if any. Oh yeah, and if you use any fertilizers or other additives. Also date (approx) purchased and date (approx) died might be good to have as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Do the fish shops run UV filters to kill bacteria and viruses passing in the common water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Also date (approx) purchased and date (approx) died might be good to have as well. working on it. for those effected, can you please list following info for me to save some time: water source fish effected total number dead purchased from approx date purchase approx date of deaths ph peramiters Nitrate Nirite Amonia temp ferts/additives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 keeping spreadsheets, logging fish deaths, all sounds like quite an effort. i would rather put the effort into starting over - culling all my fish, cleaning/sanitizing all my gear and surrounding areas, and fix the problem for myself, or i could just stop keeping fish.. because at the end of the day why should i care if anybody else is having the same problem as i am.. if i can fix it for myself then i can bail from this issue and let all of you deal with it. if there is a bactaria/illness/disease or whatever, it's mafs problem in the long run, not mine. my point being, i think that MAF, or any of you master fish keepers, business owners, aquarists, should be more concerned about this than i am. why should i make the huge effort just to get them to do something about it when in the long run it's gonna end up being their problem, where as i can just bail on it if i choose to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Because there is no proof yet that there is any mystery illness affecting your fish, and you might just be culling all your fish on account of a statistical blip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Good lesson to learn from the losses. Whilst they have been quarantined by importers for 4 weeks, it still is good practice to quarantine fish for a week before adding them to your tank, this will give you time to observe the fish and get them acclimatized to your food etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 i personally have enough proof to believe that there is "something" killing my fish - enough proof to actually consider culling my babies and re starting. you guys seriously, after all of the people contributing to this thread, still believe that there is probably no problem at all and in fact it is mere coincidence or a batch of faulty heaters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 i personally have enough proof to believe that there is "something" killing my fish Maybe something, but it could be anything. fish come with all sorts of diseases, so a mentioned it is a good idea to quarantine them when getting new fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq0aWY_lcy8idEZnLUZrdmhiWGY4czg4MXpRTnhTeGc spread sheet is up... i think people should be able to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 well done maybe add time from purchase to death - will be relevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 good point - I've changed it to include that, and moved a few into that column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq0aWY_lcy8idEZnLUZrdmhiWGY4czg4MXpRTnhTeGc spread sheet is up... i think people should be able to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Fish diseases are only the problem of MPI while the fish are in quarantine. Once released they are the owners problem. Many diseases are carried by fish without them showing any signs of having them. If the fish becomes stressed through environmental conditions or if their immune system becomes weakened through present or previous environmental conditions then the disease may manifest. Many diseases can take a long time to manifest. Keeping tropical fish can be a challenge as they are perishable goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrazyGeoff Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 An interesting topic, and well done on the spread sheet. No one has talked about food. Over the last couple of years there has been a proliferation of self imported food. The diagnostic books that I have talk of food as being a cause of FMB disease too. "The most common route of infection is through oral ingestion by eating contaminated food......." A picture is worth a thousand words..... If FMB is suspected get a gram positive antibiotic from your vet.. "Mycobacterium is a gram-positive bacterium and can therefore NOT be treated with most of the anti-bacterial drugs available today...." - Note that I am not saying any of you have FMB. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 need more data the most significant fact i see so far is in the loss of scales this may also point to a bacterial infection getting into the skin and loosening scales or internal temperature rise in fish may also affect this it seems sporadic and over a period of time which may just get down to the individual fishes immune system or general physiology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Please excuse my ignorance but what is FMB? Piscene tb is caused by a micobacterium but there are also non tb micobacterium infections in fish. Mico bacteria can be difficult to treat even with gram positive antibiotics as they have a protective slime coat. Many years ago there were a lot of very crook looking goldfish about and I got a friend who was a government analyst in a micro lab to do some work on them. He came up with the cause being aeromonus and the cheapest effective antibiotic was bactrim (sulphamethoxazole and trimethoprim) it is a bacteria commonly found in the soil and was about that time also the cause of the hospitalization of some people with rotting groins and armpits from swimming in a poorly maintained spa pool. Bactrim can be dosed at quite a few times the suggested dose without harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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