disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 really quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 You kill it then do the autopsy before other problems of bacterial and enzymic decay disguise the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 and at this point does it matter if it is a bacteria or disease? i am referring to it as "disease" because there is no real other term to use when dealing with an unknown cause of fish deaths that is spreading, likely has one root source (?) and is resulting in so many deaths. please let me know if there is a more appropriate term to use when talking about an unknown issue. perhaps we should call it "spontaneous fish combustion/death" as disgustipated suggested to me the other day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 and then can we please have a new forum entitled "bacteria"/"other term" where it would be more appropriate to move this discussion to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Sudden Fish Deaths = SFD does it need moving or just renaming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 it has to have a good abbreviation. how about "fish unexplainably car king it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Sudden Fish Deaths = SFD does it need moving or just renaming neither because for now the issue is still unknown and involving fresh water fish so title is appropriate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 I dont think anyone has said that you cant call it a disease have they? and no the fish I got from a member on here were local not from up your way. The point I was trying to make is that not all issues that look like they could be related always are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 very true. but it is important to gather all the information we can on this issue, and here is the place to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 You can call it presumptive disease; bacterial, viral or whatever. Doesn't sound like a toxin crossing different water supplies and not affecting all fish. But bacteria and viruses don't have a 100% infection rate, or kill rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 I am in central Auckland and in the last six months have purchased well over 100 fish - none of whom have died from the symptoms mentioned, however several died by being sucked in through an incorrectly attached filter strainer. Perhaps if a group of you get together and when the next fish dies, refrigerate it immediately, take it to a vet and ask them to send it to Gribbles Pathology Lab for virology and bacteriology reports. It will cost vet fees and laboratory charges but if you are really concerned it will be a small price to pay for peace of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Or contact a vet first and check if they would prefer a sick but live specimen. The vet may also be able to give an idea of costs involved as it isn't cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 my CPDs were a combination of fish bred by a friend, fish I bred myself and about 6 that were purchased. Also I don't seperate my equipment from tank to tank, it's all the same nets and buckets, so theoretically I have spread it everywhere but the fish don't all die. My view is that unless we know for certain that something has been caused by something else we shouldn't say that it 'must' have come from a particular source. I guess the difference is actual or direct evidence versus circumstantial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 sounds expensive. if there is enough evidence that there is an unknown issue and it is killing fish, will MAF or some other government department look into it, as in pay for the autopsy? disease on a large scale should be concern for MAF or whoever is in charge of ensuring disease doesn't spread to our native fish? imagine this breaking out into our native fish... i'm gonna guess that most of these 50+ dead fish have been flushed down the loo or buried in the garden..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 These are sudden fish deaths, which is not typical for Mycobacterium marinum which is a chronic wasting disease. So, if there is something killing your fish, it's going to be a bit harder to diagnose. Perhaps HFF might pay for the testing if everyone has sourced their fish from them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 But they haven't all sourced their fish from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 These are sudden fish deaths, which is not typical for Mycobacterium marinum which is a chronic wasting disease. So, if there is something killing your fish, it's going to be a bit harder to diagnose. Perhaps HFF might pay for the testing if everyone has sourced their fish from them? Perhaps you should read the entire thread before posting! This way you would know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett2003 Posted December 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 But they haven't all sourced their fish from them. Very true - mine come from three diff stores, and the other two tanks (with fish from the same three stores) are absolutely fine. I think we were (well, I was?) just raising it as a possibility - I don't want to malign any particular store since most of the stock seems fine - it's just this one d***ed tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Very true - mine come from three diff stores, and the other two tanks (with fish from the same three stores) are absolutely fine. I think we were (well, I was?) just raising it as a possibility - I don't want to malign any particular store since most of the stock seems fine - it's just this one d***ed tank I will throw this out there and see what you think. Have you checked that your tank heater is maintaining the tank at the temp you believe it is? Do you do hot or cold water changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 all off us bar one have purchased fish form one or all of 3 shops. I don't think any of us have said it MUST have been from one store, or person - but that logically there must be some link we have between us? its all speculation - and untill anyone can concussively tell me what the source is, and any prevention and treatment i can use I'm going to continue to speculate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett2003 Posted December 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 I will throw this out there and see what you think. Have you checked that your tank heater is maintaining the tank at the temp you believe it is? Do you do hot or cold water changes? Good point, but it seems to be! Nice and stable at 26 - 27°C, two therms Re: water changes, I do cold but it doesn't seem to have a huge impact on the overall temp (I guess water *in* is a small proportion to water still in the tank, if you see what I mean) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgustipated Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 I will throw this out there and see what you think. Have you checked that your tank heater is maintaining the tank at the temp you believe it is? Do you do hot or cold water changes? over the year that i have had this issue i have checked literally everything to ensure that the issue is not an oversight. it's hardly likely that all of us coincidentally have exactly the same technical issue.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 I will throw this out there and see what you think. Have you checked that your tank heater is maintaining the tank at the temp you believe it is? Do you do hot or cold water changes? mine have had no relation to water changes that i can see. some deaths were pre water change, some days after. deaths are all well within 24 hours of noticing a fish looking off - mostly within 4-6 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Perhaps you should read the entire thread before posting! This way you would know. Might be all from the same importer .... or the putative infection has been transferred from one fish purchased from the common store, to other fish in the tank. But hey, I just deal with human disease including looks like some grumpy ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Might be all from the same importer .... or the putative infection has been transferred from one fish purchased from the common store, to other fish in the tank. But hey, I just deal with human disease including looks like some grumpy ones. but if it were from one importer surely it would be more widespread than the north shore? or even just auckland members? And it was suggested that it were from one source store - but there was objection to suggesting as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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