ilwis Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 ive just had a look at some nz native fishes and have found out about our lovely black flounder im wanting to find out about if it can live in fresh water in a tank for its life or if it will die because it doesnt go to salt water also does anyone know if there is a place in the auckland region where i could find one of these guys? also black flounder is a difrent species than the brown ones found in most beaches right? or the ones ive seen with the orange spots are just the comon one but camoed to the enviroment it was found in (just so you know the one im refering too... ) http://www.rodmorris.co.nz/New-Zealand- ... &k=4Kp8f7X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calculator Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Looks cool, and am keen to learn more about it, as I am sure they would be fun to keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matto Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 is this the same species? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatfish Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Hi ilwis, I did a fair bit of work on flounder (hence the name flatfish) at uni several years ago and I have kept black flounder in a tank for a short while. We have 4 similar species of common inshore flounder in New Zealand (all Rhombosolea species). The greenback flounder in mainly found in the lower South Island. The remaining three: the dab or sand flounder, the yellowbelly flounder, and the black flounder are found throughout much of New Zealand. The ones you've seen off beaches are likely sand flouder or yellowbellies. The yellowbelly does move into the lower reaches of many rivers but is thought to only stay there for short periods while the black flounder is a truly freshwater species and appears to only go to sea to spawn. So yes you could keep it in a freshwater tank. However the minimum legal size is 25 cm (about 1.5 to 2 years old) so thats a fairly long and wide fish to keep in a tank, and they eat quite a lot of food. The also grow fast and can get to 45 cm in just over 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilwis Posted November 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 i dont know it could be a juvinile in your hand tho it looks like the common ones ive seen hundreds in the shallows of the sea, did you catch him in fresh water? the black flounder is knowen to be able to rivial the charmeleion for colour changing so thats kinda cool there has been descusion on the fish forum years ago (with some photos) viewtopic.php?f=41&t=39095&hilit=black+flounder but it didnt have much about where they are so hense opening this descusion i would like to find some and hopefully keep some if i can it would be nice to breed them too if at all possable all ive been able to find out about location is upper hut and christchurch is 2 places they have been seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilwis Posted November 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Hi ilwis, I did a fair bit of work on flounder (hence the name flatfish) at uni several years ago and I have kept black flounder in a tank for a short while. We have 4 similar species of common inshore flounder in New Zealand (all Rhombosolea species). The greenback flounder in mainly found in the lower South Island. The remaining three: the dab or sand flounder, the yellowbelly flounder, and the black flounder are found throughout much of New Zealand. The ones you've seen off beaches are likely sand flouder or yellowbellies. The yellowbelly does move into the lower reaches of many rivers but is thought to only stay there for short periods while the black flounder is a truly freshwater species and appears to only go to sea to spawn. So yes you could keep it in a freshwater tank. However the minimum legal size is 25 cm (about 1.5 to 2 years old) so thats a fairly long and wide fish to keep in a tank, and they eat quite a lot of food. The also grow fast and can get to 45 cm in just over 4 years. oh wow thats awesome! i really want to find one around auckland can you seggest any ideas on where i may find some? eg what water depths, conditions, or anything that might help me find some? how big was your tank you had them in? also what fish lover will complain about having to get themselves a new big tank ? :happy2: oh the shame :gigl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 :sml1: Rod and I caught that fish last week! He is doing the photos and I am doing the writing for a new fieldguide to freshwater fish in NZ! He is about to set up to take photos of a 2cm one tonight Ok, so black flounder are a catadromous species, meaning they spend most of their growing time in freshwater but migrate to the sea to breed. Larvae come in after a couple of months.They are commonly found around estuaries, but this is probably partly because they are easily caught there. There are many records of them between 60 and 250km inland, in low gradient rivers. Sadly there is very little known about this species, despite it being the only freshwater member of its genus, and being a 'managed' ( :sml1: ) species. The quota management thing is a problem. *Technically* you are only allowed to catch them using certain techniques and there is a minimum size of 25cm for flatfish. I have just emailed MinFish (or whatever they are now) and will let you know. The answer probably depends on the mood of the person answering, as the laws regarding native wildlife are a complete mess. In the meantime, the size and shape of flounder greatly affect how you keep them. Obviously they need a LARGE ground area. Given the shape of the fish, there would be little going on in the tank elsewhere. Other fish could be used, but, to quote a friend, they are 'wee predacious flying carpets'. It would be very easy to overestimate stocking due to the size and shape of the flounder. While many little flounder could be ok together, they grow very fast, and aquatic life cannot be released into the wild without a permit. I would advise having one baby flounder and keeping other short-lived native fish with it (inanga/smelt). As the flounder grows the others will die off (and/or be eaten), creating room. Actually, what would be cool is also getting a young giant bully and growing that up along with the flounder! They are also astonishingly good at getting out of tanks by shooting along the bottom and up the side. All that said, the babies are seriously cute, and, given the right sized/shaped aquarium, they would be a fascinating pet! ilwis, it is the sand flounder (I think, or perhaps yellowbelly?) that is our chameleon flounder. Someone might have a copy of 'A Treasury of New Zealand Fishes', the author clearly had a lot of fun playing with them. I think they mimiced fishing net perfectly, but an abstract triangular patterned lino was about their limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatfish Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Thanks Stella. I look forward to seeing the field guide. I tagged a few black and yellowbelly flounder for my thesis in the Ruamahanga River to validate annual and daily growth zones in their ear nobes (otoliths). The study was successful but the study was never published. One of the tagged flounder did travel to the Awakino River (?454 km from memory) so some do go wandering once they have spawned. I kept my two fairly large flounder in a large five foot tank for a few weeks. It was to see how well the fish took up the antibiotic and bone marker (oxytetracycline). They were voracious feeders. I fed them mainly earthworms, a few bloodworms and white worms. I didn't have to keep them long and I guess it was a fairly boring diet but they ate it all. I caught plenty of small black flounder in shallowwater at night in the Ruamahanga River. But they grow so fast you would have to catch them at the right time of the year if you wanted really small ones. I'd need to check what time of the year I caught them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 How big do they get? I've caught a flounder before...But it was a meter or so long and 60 kg isn't exactly suitable for even a Henward sized tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatfish Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Very nice ?halibut. Have you got pics. I've only seen black flounder 45 cm long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Very nice ?halibut. Have you got pics. I've only seen black flounder 45 cm long. No pics, it was millennia go before digital cameras. I was a teenager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Thanks Stella. I look forward to seeing the field guide. hehe me too! Manuscript is due for submission at the end of the year *workworkwork* and the book is due to be published by the end of next year. I tagged a few black and yellowbelly flounder for my thesis in the Ruamahanga River to validate annual and daily growth zones in thier ear nobes (otoliths). The study was successful but the work was only never published. One of the tagged flounder did travel to the Awakino River (?454 km from memory) so some do go wandering once they have spawned. oooh would you be so wonderful as to send me a .pdf of this? There is practically no (published) work on black flounder. I caught plenty of small black flounder in shallow water at night in the Ruamahanga River. But they grow so fast you would have to catch them at the right time of the year if you wanted really small ones. I'd need to check what time of the year I caught them. I think they are out at the moment, following a winter spawning. The little one that I caught the other day looks very oval like the adults, will post a photo of it when I have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 No pics, it was millennia go before digital cameras. I was a teenager. How about a daguerreotype then? Or possibly a rock drawing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 How about a daguerreotype then? Or possibly a rock drawing? Think something like this painted with ash and crushed bugs on the wall of a cave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilwis Posted November 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 oh wow thats really informative! when i was a kid i use to have some yellow flounder in a tank i think i had about 20 in a tank for about 3 months and they were quite happy i realeased them then none died while i had them and they were quite fanaciting so its ok in that respect i think i might need a very large tank for one as big as 45cm i might have to make one like a skate tank size it will be interesting to see what minfish have to say about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 is this the same species? I think it might be.... not so sure with these wee ones, but the body outline looks oval like the blacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Surely the hardest bit about keeping flounder is not eating them for breakfast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I kept a half dozen baby flounder for a couple of years then it got too hot and they croaked. I don't know which type they were but hooked them out of the South branch of the Waimakariri (behind the belfast pub when getting blackworms from the outlet of the belfast freezing works). That discharge and the blackworms with it have now gone of course. They were fascinating critters---stick to the sides of the tank like suckers. They were in fresh water so assume blacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilwis Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 you know now i look at the photo again it might be the black flonder it does have the little orange spots on it in what looks like the right places Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 yes it looks like a juvie black flounder are they on dark or light substrate do you have plenty of live food? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Reply from MPI: Black Flounder are part of the quota management system and are subject to size limits (25cm) whether caught in fresh water or salt water. It is illegal to be in possession of fish that do not conform to the size limit regulations. http://www.fish.govt.nz/en-nz/Recreatio ... 526WBCMODE A special permit can be applied for and will be considered based on the information supplied to us. The person to contact for this is: [email protected] From the last time I tried getting undersized black flounder for an aquarium, a permit application cost $500 and was ridiculously involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilwis Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 oh wow thanks stella! i think i would have to keep them as above size limit and that would be a huge tank i just sold a coffee table that i had made that was a tank it would have been perfect for half a dozen of little ones but way too small for the big fullas maybe one day if i decide to upgrade my setup to a shop i could look at making a underfloor pond in the store and have some in there it would really make a good display for people, its the only way i can think of having a big enough tank other than doing some serious landscapeing its a shame there is no way that i know of to breed fish that go to sea to spawn it sounds like a fantastic species to find out things noone knows about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIL G Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hey mate ive had a black flounder in a tank for the last 7 years,Im pretty sure he was a boy as he LOVED fighting and had bite marks on his fins,rips,tears and half his tail was bitten off,His favourite food was Inanga sadly,lol,He was definitly the king off the tank-We called him "THE GENERAL" ...Unfortunatly-he passed away 2 weeks ago i feel maybe because his time was up,Trust me i was gutted...Anyway i stay in Otaki and go to the river alot and i have seen at xmas time lots and lots and lots off Black Flounder-The best viewing was 2 dark blue and a pure white Black Flounder who i call Zoom Zoom as he comes close to you but is smart enough to not get too close/but hes there alot...thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Cool, thanks for sharing! Interesting about The general lasting seven years. So little is known about these fish, and they are thought to be quite short lived. Possibly he lived longer due to being in an aquarium (I had a 3 year old inanga, and a have seen a five year old one - they can't spawn in the aquarium so they live longer). What was he fighting with? The image of an inanga beating up a big flounder is great! :lol: Any chance you could try and catch the white flounder and get a photo? Sounds extremely rare, especially for a fish that both hunts and avoids predators by blending in with its surroundings! It has done very well to survive :f77: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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