David R Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I have a rather annoying habit of agonizing over the slightest differences in tank dimensions every time I decide to build a new tank, and this time round is no exception! :facepalm: I have a space 2.95M wide but have decided to limit the tank to 2.7M max to allow a bit of room at either end (and so I can get away with a single sheet of ply for the base!), there is a window 1.1M out from the back wall but having the tank extend past that isn't really a problem, and it will be built on site so access/weight isn't really an issue either. Filtration will be provided by a large sump in the garage on the other side of the wall behind the tank, so the drains will run straight back thru the wall and into the sump, stand will only be about 450mm high. The dilemma; The dimensions I'm thinking of are right on the limit for 12mm glass (IMO). I'd like the tank to be at least 100cm wide, and at least 65cm high, preferably 70cm. After discussing it with the tank maker today I've learned that 15mm glass is a big step up in price as it has to be cut to size and be machined in Auckland as it is too thick to cut straight using the conventional score-and-snap method. If I go 15mm I'll be using ultraclear for the front panel too, so more $$$. So, do I stick with my original idea and fork out the extra for 15mm glass and go 270x120x70cm with a safety factor of 3.5 (or go taller still since I'm paying for thicker glass)? Do I drop the height down to 65cm (2.9) or 60cm (3.2) and leave it at 120cm wide? Go for 100cm wide and 70cm high and accept the slightly reduced safety factor with 12mm (still 2.3 according to this calculator)? Or believe the maths that the extra width doesn't put any more pressure on the bottom seams and be happy with a safety factor of 2.3 and go 270x120x70 with 12mm? I'd even consider reducing the length by 10-20cm and keeping the width at 120cm... The main fish will be my black aro and a collection of med-large sized plecs, along with a few eartheaters and other as-yet-undecided cichlids. The extra 20cm width would be nice but won't be necessary for the stock I'm keeping, and 65cm is probably enough height, but I still can't help but think what if... :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 "Damn I wish my monster tank was smaller!" -Nobody Ever. Aside from price, what's the disadvantage of going bigger? This is a huge, permanent feature in your home afterall, you want to do it once and do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Aside from price, what's the disadvantage of going bigger? Just price, like a huge (50-100%?) increase going from 12mm to 15mm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I think you will regret it if you dont. Kinda like the one that got away scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 You need to decide whether or not that extra 50-100% is worth it really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critter_crazy Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 "Damn I wish my monster tank was smaller!" -Nobody Ever. This was my mantra when planning my first monster tank :happy2: So excited! I'd go as big as you can comfortably afford. It would suck to have it all set up and realise you really did want that extra room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I think you will regret it if you dont. Kinda like the one that got away scenario You need to decide whether or not that extra 50-100% is worth it really. Right on the money, I probably could get away with it in 12mm even at 70 high, but I think the sensible thing to do is get a price for the big one in 15mm and take it from there. I would prefer the safety factor to be closer to 3 than 2, but if its double the price then dropping the height a little may be more sensible than thicker glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Now we're talking! If reducing the height by 10cm will save you 100% then that's a bit of a no brainer really. Or you could increase the height by 40cm, fill it halfway and call it a riparium :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Go 2700x1200x650mm in 12mm IMO Trust the science! I suppose you will have the usual bracing? You're not gonna have any kids banging on the glass anytime soon are you? :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 You're not gonna have any kids banging on the glass anytime soon are you? :slfg: :facepalm: :digH: :sml1: apparently there is a sweepstake running at work to see how long that lasts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I often wonder when leaning into my tank albeit very carefully, how much extra strain the tank is taking and think that is something that we should be taking in to consideration with the glass safety factor. Even though 15mm glass is a lot more expensive, the security and the fact that you could make it slightly larger will, IMO be worth it. Can't wait to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I often wonder when leaning into my tank albeit very carefully, how much extra strain the tank is taking and think that is something that we should be taking in to consideration with the glass safety factor. Even though 15mm glass is a lot more expensive, the security and the fact that you could make it slightly larger will, IMO be worth it. Can't wait to see it. Well, if you're leaning into the pane then you're decreasing the strain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I often wonder when leaning into my tank albeit very carefully, how much extra strain the tank is taking and think that is something that we should be taking in to consideration with the glass safety factor. I make a point of never leaning on my tanks for that very reason!! Another good thing about having a low tank is the easier access, catching fish and working on my old 1400L tank was a breeze compared to Henwards 1200L that was nearly twice as high. I was just measuring up the access for getting the stand into the room and realised I made a cock up, the ceiling isn't tall enough to rotate the stand up onto its end so it can be rotated 90* and then swung down end first into the tank room. I thought it was 2.9 high, turns out its only 2.73. So, I either have to reduce the length to 240 to get the full 120cm width, or reduce the width to <113cm so the stand can come in thru the 72x113cm window... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Thought I'd run this through a simulation for ya. (I think i did it correctly) But it looks good enough for me. 12mm Glass, filled to 700mm and 1 brace in the center. But without the brace it isnt very happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 the 100cm wide tanks are almost too wide to lean into to access the back of tank when they are up against a wall a breeze if you have walk in behind space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Thought I'd run this through a simulation for ya. now thats something I can't do with my pencil and paper planning!!!! So that is based on a 270x70 panel filled right to the very top? I'd probably have at least two braces front to back (as my old 240cm tank did) and have a brace running lengthwise along the front and rear too. Just found a very obvious solution to the stand problem on MFK... make it in two parts and bolt it together (thread here if you're interested). However, I'm starting to wonder if 120cm is really necessary, and thinking it may look nicer if it doesn't stick out past the window (even if only by a little bit). LA I couldn't reach the very back of my old 1400L tank (with my hand at least) and TBH I don't really care if I can't reach the back of this one! Not like I'm going to be planting/trimming plants or anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 the 100cm wide tanks are almost too wide to lean into to access the back of tank when they are up against a wall a breeze if you have walk in behind space I'd say even a 60X60cm tank is getting a bit big for easy maintenance. Mine I can barely reach the gravel at the front and can reach to about halfway down the back glass. Everything between those two points I haven't touch. Makes it harder to plant things, arrange rocks, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I don't plant things or arrange rocks, big pile of driftwood and a couple of random rocks = aquascaped! Water changes/siphon is done with a 2' length of PVC on the end of ~10 metres of hose, plus I have long arms so no issues there. Can always put the speedos on if needed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I don't plant things or arrange rocks, big pile of driftwood and a couple of random rocks = aquascaped! Water changes/siphon is done with a 2' length of PVC on the end of ~10 metres of hose, plus I have long arms so no issues there. Can always put the speedos on if needed... So no strain on the glass as you climb in? You going to dive in instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 yes i ended up using a large piece of driftwood that came up out of water in the center of tank left swimming room round the back of it helped break up line of sight when i had the aro community Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 So no strain on the glass as you climb in? You going to dive in instead? Maybe I'll set up some sort of hammock above the tank so I can gently lower myself in, should I ever find myself in a situation where a long stick won't suffice for reaching the back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I love that simulation. Was that using Euro bracing though? I guess we all need to decide on where we are willing to cut corners and its a preference thing really. If it were me, I would go taller, at least 750mm with 15mm glass, polished machine-cut edges, black silicon, full Euro bracing (the minimal cost for that is worth it in terms of structural safety...but I do live in a quake zone... :facepalm: ). With an Aro, all that extra room up top and those refined edges will make the tank so much nicer... !drool: I also wouldn't bother with low-iron glass. I have one tank with some low iron glass - it was a lot of money for a small difference. The glass is really smooth though. :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I also wouldn't bother with low-iron glass. I have one tank with some low iron glass - it was a lot of money for a small difference. How thick was the glass? I wouldn't bother with it for anything less than 15mm either, but at that thickness you do start getting a bit of a green tinge as well as more distortion when looking at it on an angle. I asked about black silicon and apparently it isn't as strong, so I think I'll give it a miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Is laminating glass to 15 or 16mm going to be cheaper than using a single thick pane of 15mm glass? Jennifer: The bracing i ran in the simulation went from front to back of the tank in the center. Just did a new one, with what i think is euro bracing. This one has an 80mm wide strip along the top edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 i would of thought lami wouldnt be as strong as a single peice, more places for an issue to pop up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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