hovmoller Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 OK so this is more of a thought experiment than an actual wish at this point.. Just want to hear some feedback from those who knows out there. Scenario: I want a group of fish of a certain species that I can't find in NZ. The species is on biosecurity allow list so no problem there. I contact a good and honest importer and he/she orders the fish from overseas and takes care of quarantine etc. We agree on a price beforehand and I pay up front and I take the risk should any or all fish not make it (or perhaps go halfs with the importer, depending on what can be agreed of course) After quarantine I recieve my fish (or whats left) and I am stoked cos I got the species I want. Is this scenario plausible? has anyone done this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Someone in another thread managed to find an importer willing to do it with guppies. Expect to pay about $5000, maybe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Someone in another thread managed to find an importer willing to do it with guppies. Expect to pay about $5000, maybe more. Price obviously depending on species but why such a high cost.. it would simply be part of a bigger normal shipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayne Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Price obviously depending on species but why such a high cost.. it would simply be part of a bigger normal shipment. maf fees, may not be able to get it from same supplyer, they have to make a profit some how EDIT: also freight which is like $5kg and a box would weigh 10kg + Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Price obviously depending on species but why such a high cost.. it would simply be part of a bigger normal shipment. I'm not confident but from what it sounds like there is no such thing as "Part of a bigger normal shipment." Each species is it's own importation, requires it's own quarantine tank, it's own tests, etc. You might save a little bit on the actual freight, but you can't just say, "Throw a dozen pike cichlids in with this shipment of geophagus..." Nope, that'll be an extra $5K for those dozen fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 What about when we see the new fish lists from places like HFF, it seems as if the stores do get a varied shipment of fish and I think that is what Hovmoller is asking for, can some extras be tacked on to the side of one of those? Maybe HFF or another store could give us some info on how the process works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 one importer will order from one supplier, import then sell to LFS if that supplier doesn't have the fish you want then no luck that is why oddities or hard to come by fish are more expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuri08 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 one importer will order from one supplier, import then sell to LFS if that supplier doesn't have the fish you want then no luck that is why oddities or hard to come by fish are more expensive was just about to say the same thing. if u want fish you have to get in on the orders that they are already importing i use to get my guppies through a importer and they would come in with an existing shipment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 What you described is pretty much how the guy is/was bringing in high grade assian aros like Henwards red. I have had a similar thought, what really needs to happen is a group of keen people get together and put in a reasonable sized order from a certain supplier to make it worth while. Shame this forum doesn't allow the organisation of such things.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 "Throw a dozen pike cichlids in with this shipment of geophagus..." :sml1: Am I that obvious?? :slfg: Shame this forum doesn't allow the organisation of such things.... Yes indeed.. It could be a good thing.. I understand that this sort of venture has gone terribly wrong before and perhaps this is why it is not allowed here. I believe it could work but it would mean money up front and a firm agreement of what happens in case of loss of fish, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Changing the rules to "FNZAS is not liable for any money lost from bulk buys organised through the forum" would be enough surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 What people do privately is their own business. It is just that previous experience would lead FNZAS to not wish to be associated with it.The federation is not preventing people from bringing in fish and I am sure people have and will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 So if people use the PM system to obtain the email address of someone with the intent to bulk purchase, is that still breaking the rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 What people do privately is their own business. The FNZAS does not wish to be part of arrangements for a bulk purchase nor seen to be part because of previous bad results and the tendancy to blame the federation. If it all goes sour do not involve the federation. What you do privately is up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Actually as one of the creators of the rules (many years ago when the site began), the bulk purchase rule was specifically aimed at people doing direct/parallel importing who were looking to get enough to buy a minimum quantity. If a group was organised to make a purchase through the proper channels (either through a retailer or friendly importer) there should be no problem - except the site rules still don't really allow it. As I said, the rule is to stop direct importing of things like food, filters etc. I will ask the moderators to consider an alteration to the rules to allow organising bulk purchases through the retail channel for standard products and wholesalers for specialised products (only if retailers are not interested in helping). I won't guarantee success as it will go to a vote but I will try... And to address another question about using the PM system to do it - the rules state that all rules also apply to PM's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted July 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Good idea Warren, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 That is why I did not suggest that contact and making arrangements by PM would be OK. There would be no problem in my view about people making private arrangements over a cup of coffee. Again, what people do in private is their business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted July 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 what people do in private is their business. Only the third time you have said that in this thread Alan. But that is not the point of this thread. And it is also not the point of this thread whether people are allowed to organise combined orders using this forum :smot: I simply wanted to explore the feasibility of ordering fish from overseas through an importer whether it be as a group or not. Questions like: Does it have to be extremely expensive? Could it simply be added as e.g. 50 extra fish of this kind with an importers next order? Or would one have to order (and pay for) a 1000 fish, just to make pr fish price sellable with maf fees and so on? As I said: A thought experiment From Wikipedia: A thought experiment or Gedankenexperiment (from German) considers some hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle for the purpose of thinking through its consequences. Given the structure of the experiment, it may or may not be possible to actually perform it, and, in the case that it is possible for it to be performed, there need be no intention of any kind to actually perform the experiment in question. The common goal of a thought experiment is to explore the potential consequences of the principle in question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 no thoughts were harmed during this experiment :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Hovmoller, I suspect you wont get a lot of answers simply because people dont know them. I imagine this sort of thing is in the 'too hard' basket for most. I would think that the best bet would be to strike up a good relationship with your local fish shop and ask them how things work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 I simply wanted to explore the feasibility of ordering fish from overseas through an importer whether it be as a group or not. Questions like: Does it have to be extremely expensive? Could it simply be added as e.g. 50 extra fish of this kind with an importers next order? Or would one have to order (and pay for) a 1000 fish, just to make pr fish price sellable with maf fees and so on? I'm not sure many people here would have any sort of relevant experience to relate to this, unfortunately. There was someone selling a set up that had been used as a salt water quarantine facility so may be able to offer advice on how it works. Perhaps it wold be best to contact an importer (say Aquarius or Redwoods) directly with a list of questions/ideas. I know I'd be keen to try push for some of the species on the list we don't see often enough (like the Crenicichla you mention), but I guess what it really comes down to is if they are available from a supplier the importer uses so it can be added to their order, or if you/we are willing to fork out enough cash to justify our own shipment from a supplier of our choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted August 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Yes the thing that made me think of this was the recent avaliability of G. balzanii that Hollywoods both stores had. Of course I can only guess on this matter but these two stores together might have had a total of say 100 young fish and they sold in the shop for perhaps $20 or so (can't remember exactly) This is a species that have not (to my knowledge) been imported for a while and suddenly there are a relatively small amount avaliable at a low price. This means that it couldn't have cost very much to import them if all parties (importer, retailer) has made a profit along the way and they sell in shops for $20 So in the same manner could one not simply tag on 50 small pike cichlids to an order if I was able to pay money up front. Anyway this is where the thoughts came from.. I don't get the whole "it'll cost you $5000 for a few fish" concept.. It just doesnt make sense. Yeah perhaps if they were high risk or needed to be added to the allow list first or whatever.. I am just trying to understand really. It's not that I specifically want to cut out the retailer, they can have a share in the profit if they would facilitate such an order. Again I stress that it would be money up front and any risk could be shared. Would be interresting to hear from Mr. Hollywood on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I know of a few breeding harems around NZ of balzanii's, maybe a few have turned up reacently If there is enough demand they should come into the country, I'll have a chat with a couple of people and see if we can work out a way to notify the importers of certain demand. yet there is too many previous cases of people going I want I want and then never taking it when on offer. even on fish that are in the country people will go into their LFS's and order something in and never show up, this puts LFS's off the whole specific ordering thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.