GrahamC Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Maybe they want to sell you more fish? :slfg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinox Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 im new to this stuff, i don't have any friends with tanks or that are into this. All i can do is take the advice that people give me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 You've got lots of new friends here. I'm sure someone here who lives in Pakuranga will offer you some filter material populated with bacteria. Just ask ... in the private trade section post a message asking for free live filter material. In the meantime I would suggest restarting ammolock as it will turn the ammonia into ammonium which is non toxic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinox Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Is there anyone nearby who can gift you some old filter material?? If someone could give me / sell me some of this , i would apreciate it. If anyone can tell me a good cycle of how to water change and what chemicals to put in would be awsum also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinox Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Okay GrahamC, ill definatly look into that, thanks mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 You need the ammonia to be produced and converted to nitrite and then to nitrate by the bacteria. Getting established filter media will provide the bacteria but they will all die off if you take the food source off them by using ammolock.. Chuck the ammolock and get some established filter media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 That is contrary to the product information for the liquid Ammolock Works instantly, in both fresh and saltwater, to detoxify ammonia and remove chlorine and chloramines. Locks up ammonia in a non-toxic form until it can be broken down by the tank's natural biological filter. Eliminates fish stress and promotes healthy gill function. Alan might be referring to chips that sequesters ammonia, and in that instance your ammonia is not available for nitrification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshlikesfish Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 If someone could give me / sell me some of this , i would apreciate it. If anyone can tell me a good cycle of how to water change and what chemicals to put in would be awsum also. I live in howick/botany/pakuranga and I'd be happy to trade some of your filter media for mine. I have plenty of fully cycled filters going on my tanks. I would also be happy to answer any questions. You need the ammonia to be produced and converted to nitrite and then to nitrate by the bacteria. Getting established filter media will provide the bacteria but they will all die off if you take the food source off them by using ammolock.. Chuck the ammolock and get some established filter media.Ammonium is still consumed by your bacteria, allowing the cycle to keep going. Ammolock works a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Sorry you are right, it will be converting the ammonia to ammonium. I have never used it so was making assumptions--never a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 As said above, I would move to a 20 - 30% water change daily untill the ammonia gets down to below 1ppm, and then watching for nitrite and then nitrate. Live media will speed this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinox Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Thanks for all the feed back, so i should do 25% water change daily and put ammolock and prime in each time? and no longer use stability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I dont use any of the above but it looks like ammolock and prime do the same thing http://www.hollywoodfishfarm.co.nz/detail/view/seachem-prime-100-ml/m/927/ http://www.hollywoodfishfarm.co.nz/detail/view/api-ammolock-118ml/m/1179/ stability? is that a bacteria solution? If you have used it then they should be inthere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinox Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 This is Stability, recommended by my LFS but anmimates says use Ammolock http://www.hollywoodfishfarm.co.nz/detail/view/seachem-stability-100ml/m/1246/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Stability looks to be some nitrifying bacteria. You could use both. Or, if you get the old media, then just ammolock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Be aware if you use Ammolock it will affect your test readings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I imagine they probably do much the same thing - different shops stock different products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Ammolock data says it turns ammonia into ammonium, and Prime says it does this as well as detoxifying nitrites. So on paper it appears that Prime does more. What are your nitrite levels at present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 So the bacteria that you are trying to culture to turn nitrite to nitrate---what do they get to practice on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I have never used excessive products in my tank other than one time (PO4 issue) de-chlorinator is the only thing that I use on a constant basis... or sodium thiosulphate if I can get hold of it... (good for removing excess Bleach after sterilising, too) Nothing, and I mean nothing, is better for your tank than water changes. Directly removes NH3 / NH4+ / NO2 / NO3 / PO4 medication, everything. It like opening a window in your room for fresh air. Eventually your bacteria will catch up and equalise with your bio-load, but, even when they are working properly, the NO3 they produce is accessible to algae, macro and micro. Solution - keep up weekly water-changes, or get some (more than just a couple) plants + lights and do slightly fewer water changes. (NOTE: talking about an established tank here, yours will get there eventually, if you start to get algae, you're there :thup:) Thing to remember is that you are trying to mimic nature in a mini-eco system to the best of our abilities, the closer you can get to this, the better your water is going to be, and the happier your captives... HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 So the bacteria that you are trying to culture to turn nitrite to nitrate---what do they get to practice on? Does this 2002 response also answer your question? There may well be newer explanations though that supercede this. The removal of ammonia by Prime is based on the formation of an imine (or Schiff base) via complexation of the amine with an aldehyde equivalent (the aldehdyde itself is not free but is complexed in a hemi acetal of sorts with any of a number of different sulfur based oxides). So that's the ammonia removal. Now for the nitrate/nitrite removal. The detoxification of nitrite by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use the nitrite. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound. I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they expererienced when their nitrite levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product. Gregory Morin, Ph.D. ~~~~~~~President/CEO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seachem Laboratories, Inc. http://www.seachem.com 888-SEACHEM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 so they don't even know how or why it works basically is what that says to me.... :facepalm: and therein lies my problem with all these fan-dangled chemicals and their "scientists"... excuse me if I'm not filled with confidence... :slfg: Waterchanges... 100% guaranteed to do what it should... AND! means you'll have a few more pennies to clink together when it comes to purchasing inhabitants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinox Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 sounds all confusing to me haha! :facepalm: but i guess the main thing is just relax a bit in my eyes, its going to take time for the filter to cycle, its only been in 10 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Patience is the main thing that you need when fish keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 i have to say that I have never used amolock, or any buffering solution. I would go cold turkey and stop using any additives and keep with the water changes and in the second week cut down the water changes. Using all the additives only makes you broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Have to agree, stop all the cemicals your using, your Tank will cycle eventually, this is were the patients comes in. Rome wasn't built in a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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