The Future of the hobby in NZ?

[hovmoller]

So to anyones knowledge has it ever been attempted by a group of fishkeepers in NZ to band together, raise the money and put in an order for eg. 50 fish of a new species? (a species on the list that is, but which is just not in NZ)

[Mad Whip]

Join FNZAS ya tight buggers. It's not just about the meetings and I'm sure you get your $$$$ worth out of the forum alone.

How about group buys other forums do it. There could be a list from an importer used to gauge interest in some rarer/expensive fish. Then perhaps a shipment could be order and sent out to the local shops with a fee paid to the local shop for holding till collection. What ever is done it would be very detrimental to the hobby here if the LFS suffered. Public should never get wholesale.

[diver21]

with that shipment there are numerous things that can happen, like a disease outbreak in the tank these new fish are held in, that kills half the stock, or worse they all die.

is it a risk some people want to take?

a group buy is a good idea but can be risky, you could be entering into a trap to say, if others pull out of the deal after the order has been placed, and the total cost per fish isnt going to be known until the fish is out of quarantine, and that cost could scare more people causing them to pull out, leaving someone to foot the bill.

[Barrie]

Join FNZAS ya tight buggers. It's not just about the meetings and I'm sure you get your $$$$ worth out of the forum alone.

How about group buys other forums do it. There could be a list from an importer used to gauge interest in some rarer/expensive fish. Then perhaps a shipment could be order and sent out to the local shops with a fee paid to the local shop for holding till collection. What ever is done it would be very detrimental to the hobby here if the LFS suffered. Public should never get wholesale.

this is exactly what Hollywoods have been doing with a importer that was prepared to listen and go out of his way for us.

Also remember how they imported these fish with people saying they wanted them but never bothered to put their money where there mouth was

[spoon]

perhaps we need to do something to help the lfs out there now as you already know the rules around importing fish have tightened up and the food safety authority are in charge of testing the cost of importing has gone up a lot. for example chch used to have 3 lfs that used to directly import fish and quarrantine them theirselves , we now only have one and they are copping a hard time from the food safety authority who would rather not have to deal with it. an lfs that imports there own fish , particuarly if you are on good terms with them are more likely to import special items and stock rarer fish than all the rest of the lfs who use the same nz importers.

what i was thinking about (but not sure how to go about it)was petitioning the govt to standardise the import standards currently policed(there are big differences in fairness between different people doing the checks as those who dont want the extra workload are basically trying to force lfs away from importing) or perhaps in some way make it easier or cheaper for lfs to import-

to be clear im NOT talking about dropping any safety standards or allowing unwanted organism in just making it easier to get what we are already allowed to have

[Mcculloch]

I would like to see more Tanganikans in general and will pay for whatever I can get, would love to see some Neolamprologus brevis, Neolamprologus sexfasciatus, Neolamprologus tretocephalus all of which are on the list. The fish I keep I breed for my own stock/enjoyment not to compete with the lfs, for example I want to own a massive school of Synodontis petricola one day in order to do that I need to spawn the 5 I have now as hardly any one that I know of bought them so doubt more will be coming in soon.

Supporting your lfs and actually buying their more unusual stock is the only way to increase the regularity of the more interesting imports.

Oh and I'm not a member of the FNZAS.

[Barrie]

I am definatly a FNZAS member

I will not sell any fish privately but offer them to the Killi club members and Hollywoods

Its simply not worth the time off work to muck around sending them elsewhere and Hollywoods support the fancy so the way I see it, I owe them that respect.

[Navarre]

This is an interesting and exciting thread..so some musings

I have to agree that as a member of the FNZAS and some one who has both won and lost at the "its not here or its here but rare" game that this is a trip covered in land mines

People come and people go ...you are marked by your word it would seem... so if you say yes and then dont front ...you dont get asked again. easy

Cost of fish in quarintine is never set until after Q..especially now MAf are talking about batch testing and have identified fish in risk bands....ie these fish are low risk so we will mince only 1 in 10 or these fish are high rish so we blitz 1 in 2 to test for diesease.

When you bring fish in you always risk it not being popular in 12 mths but it will be 12 mths after that...and when there are none around it is even more so.

Some people have gone down this track before ...Alex..OOA..tropheus....to name a few...and they have again won and lost. look at the flack people got for supplying bloaters cheap...now they are gone and the supply has nearly dried up

I think David raises a good point the crux of it is this, for me

Get the list right...some names are not even spelt right, if one varient is allowed in why not another from the same speices with same conspecifics, etc.

Get what is on the list here...this is as much to do with Importers and Exporters

You mention jeff rapps...why would he send 10 fish to little ol NZ when he can send 100000 to Cazamazoo. Often we dont see quality fish here casue they are snapped up by the big boys so are just not available ( took me 6 shipments to get the filamentosa becasue of this)

Support the LFS ...Look I sell fish sure but I always offer them to LFS first and cheaper. Builds my rep gets me an in and they know if they sell me a fish then I will get what I breed back to them so they can grow their business. Once they so Nope to a fish it goes eslewhere.

Support each other this FNZAS thing ...the body corporate could be a powerful lobby group and agent for all of us for govt, LFS, wholesalers etc why not use it..as well as that people here are generally knowledgeable, friendly and helpful. Sure there is the odd arse ...I have been one myself...but just cause you dont like my policy on not hybridising doesnt mean you dont have to like me...does it?

Set up breed groups Once the fish are here ..are they in the right hands...doesnt mean we need to make money ( tho it would be really nice) just keep the fish going...are they spread are there back ups and they ticking over somewhere for the next generation (look at the work that has gone on in the Killie world thanks to Barrie to keep species on ice (peat) until someone else shows an interest).

Like I said some musings

as I said David is right ..we need to start somewhere and I think several steps have already been taken lets not get lost in the "heh thats a great idea I want a long finned austarilan swap shark" lets look at the working of this and gain momentum.

Navarre

Ps sorry for the novella

[David R]

Interesting thoughts/ideas/opinions. It seems there are three major things that we [as hobbyists] should be doing;

1. Make sure the species we have are being bred and stay available.

2. Get as many of the species that are already on the list imported here.

3.1. Get the list up to date with current taxonomy and species that are/were here but never made it onto the list.

3.2 Get new species added onto the list.

This is where things get difficult though, as everyone has different ideas on how best to do it....

[livingart]

+1 to david and nav

and support the fnzas

if you can't make meetings at least join your local club

the more members the bigger the lobby group

[David R]

and support the fnzas

if you can't make meetings at least join your local club

the more members the bigger the lobby group

I'm still waiting for someone from FNZAS to tell us what they are doing on this front. As I said, I have little interest in belonging to a club, but if joining it is the best way for me to help get more species available here then thats what I'll do.

Is the Federation currently involved in compiling information for an application? Or even making a list of possible candidates?

[livingart]

from ryans post

The FNZAS fish committee are already looking into the importation list and answering some of the questions that have been raised so hopefully the answers to some of the questions you have asked will come out.

[livingart]

you provided a link to the application form david

have you done an exercise on filling it out for a species you think would fit the bill for rapid assessment

these need lots of research and references to back it up,

then someone with qualifications after their name stuck on it

[Fruju]

I'm still waiting for someone from FNZAS to tell us what they are doing on this front. As I said, I have little interest in belonging to a club, but if joining it is the best way for me to help get more species available here then thats what I'll do.

Is the Federation currently involved in compiling information for an application? Or even making a list of possible candidates?

I stand here too.

[David R]

you provided a link to the application form david

have you done an exercise on filling it out for a species you think would fit the bill for rapid assessment

these need lots of research and references to back it up,

then someone with qualifications after their name stuck on it

I was expecting a "instead of asking what everyone else is doing why don't you do something yourself" type reply...

The point of this thread is not to have a dig at the Federation or piss and moan about the lack of action. I want to see some new fish here and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I am willing to join and work with the Federation if they already have some work in progress, and that is exactly what I'm trying to find out. Perhaps you could explain the what the "FNZAS Fish Committee" is and what they are doing?

And for the record, Henward and I started going through the motions of making a submission to get the entire Polypterus genus added to the list (and were going to fund it ourselves too), but unfortunately our best source of Polypterus information [Anne/Beblonde on MFK] disappeared off the face of the earth.

I'll start a new thread shortly where we can compile a list of names that are on the list but not regularly available here, including species that are infrequently available or incorrectly named. I'll need contributions from the African cichlid and Catfish geeks as I'm not up with the play in those areas...

[Jennifer]

For many years the FNZAS has been acting as a representative body for fish clubs. Each club is individual in their activities but they seek a common affiliation under the FNZAS umbrella. In theory, this should mean that the FNZAS is not only a resource, but it also speaks for all hobbyists with regard to their concerns and this could have great influence with national and local government, as well as in the public eye.

This public voice relies on a few things including, but not limited to: 1. the FNZAS listening to what the club members want; 2. the FNZAS moderating itself to ensure the members' message is conveyed accurately; 3. appointed FNZAS executives and committee members stay motivated to continue working to achieve common goals.

The executives are nominated by their clubs so this is one big way the clubs can influence our collective voice. I can only speak for myself when I say that I thought long and hard when I was asked if I would be willing to be nominated for this role. My sole reason for getting involved was because I believe that the FNZAS can do more for hobbyists, and that I can make a difference toward that end, if only by encouraging success and promoting a positive outlook for the future. Time will tell whether or not I am successful, but if I can get more good people involved, the stronger we will get and the more we can spread the workload and actually get some things done. For too long now it has been one or two people working to get things done and not only is this not sustainable in the long run, it is not in the spirit of community which is exactly what the FNZAS is supposed to represent.

The Fish Committee is a small group of motivated people who were partly appointed by the executives to work on issues of interest to the club members. It is a very good group of reasonable people who genuinely want to get things done. Some of these issues include correcting the spelling of names in the existing allowable fish import list; establishing a relationship between FNZAS and MAF BNZ and ERMA to clarify import guidelines; formulating useful guidelines for adding fish to the import list; posting guidelines to the FNZAS website as a resource for the members; improving resource articles on the FNZAS website; monitoring judging and standards for fish shows and appointing a panel of experts who can be called upon to provide expertise in any matters relating to issues at hand. There are action groups working on each of these areas and it really helps to have motivated people involved who can help with some of the legwork.

Here is a link to all affiliated clubs. Now is a good time to get involved.

[livingart]

Jennifer

"instead of asking what everyone else is doing why don't you do something yourself"

not one of those replies :roll:

more of a start the ball rolling one:wink:

most people don't know where to start

we need to get involved with the local club and enthuse the society from within

[Jennifer]

...we need to get involved with the local club and enthuse the society from within

Exactly. Even if you don't have the time to do much legwork, your positive voice will make a difference to keep us going in the right direction.

Instruction is one thing, encouragement is everything.

[hovmoller]

Thanks Jennifer for your explanation.. Very helpful

Although not entirely on topic but very closely related to, I have a question:

Is there (or should there not be) a voluntary register for what fish are being kept/bred by who?

Eg. a page where I can click on a certain species and it will tell me who has them and who is breeding them.. Managed by members themselves..

Eg. if I had 5 Lamprologus ocellatus I could go there and register them and it would be up to me to update when that changes.

I know many will not advertise their expensive fish but that is up to them..

Would give a much better overview of when a certain species within NZ is "running a bit low"

Sorry if this register already exists or have been talked about to death somewhere else.. I'm just asking here

[David R]

FNZAS have a "breeding scheme" which makes breeding a competitive sport and you get a gold star for every species you breed. Its good in the sense that it provides us with a record of what has been bred here [although there are many gaps because of unregistered breedings], but it falls a long way short of being a useful register like the one you mention.

Perhaps its time to give it an overhaul?

[hovmoller]

It would be so easy to have a tab under the user control panel where you could register "my fish" (chosen from a list of scientic names of course so people don't just make up random names like "Blackline Flying Fox")

This data could then tie in with an overall page where you can search by species and find out what is where and by who.

[Barrie]

FNZAS have a "breeding scheme" which makes breeding a competitive sport and you get a gold star for every species you breed. Its good in the sense that it provides us with a record of what has been bred here [although there are many gaps because of unregistered breedings], but it falls a long way short of being a useful register like the one you mention.

Perhaps its time to give it an overhaul?

effectively

Thats what its there for

If we were all to register our breedings (FNZAS members) we can see who has what.

I won the trophy this last year and I didnt register the breedings to win it (or gold stars ) but so that those interested could see what was here.

I havnt bothered this year

[hovmoller]

effectively

Thats what its there for

If we were all to register our breedings (FNZAS members) we can see who has what.

I won the trophy this last year and I didnt register the breedings to win it (or gold stars ) but so that those interested could see what was here.

I havnt bothered this year

So it is only in the case where someone breeds a sizable number and enters it into a competition.. This does not give a very good idea of who has what.. and it would not have helped whoever it was on the south island trying to establish a breeding group of Corydoras adolfoi not long ago.

I think the breeding competition and the fish register should be separate things.. but hey.. I'm just a non member... (for now)

[Caryl]

The breeding scheme was to encourage members to breed fish, especially when so many are being banned from future entry into the country. If we don't breed what we have we lose them forever. This has already happened to many species

Serious breeders are not interested in registering their fish. Many do not want others to know what they are breeding or are keeping.

[David R]

So it is only in the case where someone breeds a sizable number and enters it into a competition.. This does not give a very good idea of who has what..

Thats the problem, its a great indication of who had what, not who has what.

If people want to make this a competitive hobby and breed fish for the sake of getting another star by their name then good for them, but having every newbie racing to breed common/easy species isn't going to make sure we have breeding populations of the rare and difficult things being maintained here (just look at L046, for example). As hovmoller suggested, we need some sort of register that keeps track of who is currently breeding [or trying to breed] what, not what they have bred in the past. The "Individuals Pleco Collection" thread is a good start. Yes obviously not every fishkeeper in the country is going to register what they are keeping and breeding or trying to breed, but it would be good if at least people here kept track of who has what.