henward Posted July 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 i agree wiht broms. if it was a monitor lizard, that could live in colder conditions liek desert nights that fall way below the bar....what then? a monitor is more likely to eat a kiwi than a corn snake lol but both sides are valid. if you want to be cynical - you can say our economy is worth more than some lives? but another is .... do you put a price on peoples lives vs economy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie841 Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 I am not 100% sure but I would say that in northland they would survive and be able to reproduce if they got in to the roof of an old abandoned house or caravan. There are a lot of places like that around the top of the country and I am sure they would not fall below 18 degrees even in the middle of winter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted July 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 i have not heard of nz havng temps of 25c for concecutive days on end day and night to sustain breeding of reptiles like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 they were from Bangkok - a bit warmer than Northland eh anyway, if they did get out and managed to last more than a week they would probably get eaten by a stoat, ferrit or maybe the worst predator of native fauna your beloved cat :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie841 Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 i have not heard of nz havng temps of 25c for concecutive days on end day and night to sustain breeding of reptiles like that. That is why I said in roof of homes. The roof space stays well above the air temp so should stay above 18 degrees. As I said I am not 100% sure but having climbed in to roof spaces just after dawn and been surprised at the heat I think they would be about that temp. If it is a house that is lived in the temp may be an average of 23 degrees on winter nights according to BRANZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 As Broms said, the chances of them surviving and establishing a population are so slim its not even funny, there are other things to consider than temperature. The only real risk is disease, and I can appreciate that it could be a serious threat to our native reptiles. However I can think of two cases recently where innocent people have been killed by drunk drivers who avoided jail time. I bet if they were anything but snakes he wouldn't have gone inside... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie841 Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 Would this conversation be going the same way if it was a tiger snake? They are wide spread in Tasmania where the weather and temperatures are similar to NZ. They have frosts in winter and have max temperatures under 25 in most regions; even with these cold temperatures they have 3 species of snake. All are highly venomous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 Would this conversation be going the same way if it was a tiger snake? They are wide spread in Tasmania where the weather and temperatures are similar to NZ. They have frosts in winter and have max temperatures under 25 in most regions; even with these cold temperatures they have 3 species of snake. All are highly venomous tiger snake - different kettle of fish and I would be agreeing with you - if he managed to smuggle two of them in his pants then he should be buying lotto tickets! would love to be able to see them in zoo's though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 I think you would have a better chance of winning lotto and moving to Tazzy than to get them legalized here. It is a double whammy. Venomous and a snake so as you would expect there wouild me no favourable response from the powers that be. I would vote with the powers---good excuse for a trip to Ausy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie841 Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 Would South Africa be a better example then? There are lots of snakes and not all are venimous. for examply the African egg eaters that would be small enough to fit in your back pocket. As this is an egg eater it would pose a huge risk to our natives. Below is the Cape town temp in winter. It is also where you can find African egg eaters Coastal winters see the mercury dropping to a mild 7º C at night and rising to a comfortable 18º C by day. Away from the beach, morning wakens to an invigorating 5º C and midday peaks at a summery 22º C. Also if they allow one snake would people then say "they let one in they should let all in" like people do now with lizards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 I personally don't want to see snakes in private hands in NZ, but I do believe they should be in Zoo's as this is what a zoo is for. I also realise there are many snakes that would naturalise in Nz but have been talking about the smuggled corn snakes in particular. I think placing a parallel between corn snakes and tiger snakes is like saying a domestic cat is the same as a lion or tiger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie841 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 The way I look at it he smuggled a snake. The type should not be taken in to account it was a snake and they are illegal. NZ is one of only a few countries that are still snake free and it should stay that way. I would have liked the judge to give him a sentance for the snake and then double it for being an idiot (same should be done for DIC and other charges also) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted July 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 there are snakes that live in weather like nz. in florida, native wildlife is now the minority, as tropical foreign species are taking over.... buit here, we wotn have the most suited environment for snakes. sure therea re species that may establish - but i think a good way is licensing. if someone said to you - you can haev a snake, you gotta pay $200 a year registration. and you must tag it wtih a chip, plus a tracking device at your expense. who would do it? I probably would. why? because i dont wanna move to another country. regulation is fine, but smart regulation. but yeah, all just hypothetical. snakes in nz is not enough of a economic benefit for maf to even care or the govt for that matter. i can relate to taht, understand....our hobby doesnt really contribute much to the country lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 i would say the annual expenditure on fish and reptile related goods in NZ would be massive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 i would say the annual expenditure on fish and reptile related goods in NZ would be massive As a percentage of GDP it would struggle to make 0.01% Not so massive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 so what would that equate to in dollar terms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 The way I look at it he smuggled a snake. The type should not be taken in to account it was a snake and they are illegal. Thats ridiculous, and simply isn't how our justice system works. Should someone with a 50 bag of pot be charged the same as someone with half a kg of heroin? They're both drugs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 2009 GDP was about 114.9 Billion. (1.149e11), so it would never ever make 0.01%. That's about 11.5million. I should perhaps say it would make 0.007% which is about $8,043,000 expressed in total gross figures, as an estimate. (edited some of the numbers cause the zeros were killing me) gosh im really messing it up today aren't I. Those figures are expressed in USD. The then prevailing exchange rate was about NZD/USD 0.61xx, so you could further diminish the final figures and decrease the % figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted July 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 i would be curious to see the real figure of our hobby expense in nz. im not talking fish im talking reptiles:D reptiles is more 'specialized' than fish..... i dont think its really that much - suer it is part of the economy, but trying to 'stimulate it' by legalising snakes and so fourth is not a worth it due to the monitoring perhaps? wghat needs to happen is a revenue neutral or a revenue gathering by maf wtih licensing and monitoring snakes. so the hobby funds itself wtih no extra burden to govt agencies. prisons should be like this. prisoners should not cost more than a person who is on the unemployment benefit...... but a person in prison costs 5 times to put them on the unemployment benefit.....thast probably why we let everyone out right? its cheaper? cynic anyone 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 reptiles is more 'specialized' than fish..... i dont think its really that much - suer it is part of the economy, but trying to 'stimulate it' by legalising snakes and so fourth is not a worth it due to the monitoring perhaps? Its not a big chunk at all - otherwise im sure there would be specialist reptile stores - but one of the main reasons for that im sure is that we are only allowed a whole 5 types of reptiles or something. Unlike the UK where they have pretty much everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxxnz Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 OMG..No snake here please!! i hate snake..." scary reptile imagine, I wouldnt like to see our kids get snake bite when they doing some bush walk! i once was on a holiday, at the street market a kid was selling baby cheetah! boy that as so cool.., I really wanted to buy it but do know what to do wityh it later on..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gagaforfish Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 David, i must agree you get people commiting horrible se xual assault - and they get a warning or probation.... and few months. and bringin in a snake, which will probably die because it will never metabolise food... and a guy goes to jail for 3 months, up to 5 years. child molestors get out in less than 5 years at times..... a snake requires constant heat to incubate eggs. we know that from breedng BD and Water dragons. drunk drivers kill many more and waste more of our money a year in this country yet they can have 15 convictions before they see bars. Yeah, but drunk drivers etc. only endanger their own and a few other peoples lives, a snake that was pregnant/ carrying a diesese could kill many more people. We just did a topic on border security in Social Studies. But I do wish snakes didn't come with all the problems because they would be pretty cool pets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie841 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Thats ridiculous, and simply isn't how our justice system works. Should someone with a 50 bag of pot be charged the same as someone with half a kg of heroin? They're both drugs.... If I had it my way YES it would stop people from being stupid and trying to smuggle things in to the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 If I had it my way YES it would stop people from being stupid and trying to smuggle things in to the country No, it would either let serious dealers off lightly or put half the population in jail. Carrying a bit of pot for personal use is nowhere near as serious an offence as having a large quantity of class A drugs, why on earth would you want to treat both offences the same? What else would you apply this flawed logic to, speeding tickets? Someone going 5kmh over the limit is fined the same as someone going 50kmh over the limit? All thats going to do is make people think "oh well if I'm going to get a ticket I might as well go as fast as I can".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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