Time for the FNZAS to take action?

[Morcs]

It is something I hate, and something that despite doing my upmost to sway people away, on the larger scheme of things you just cant stop people.

A lot of the people who buy these tanks get them because they are cheap, and they dont want the expense of getting kitted out properly. I have heaps of people whinging at me as a small goldfish will cost them around $8 nowadays - its hard to encourage people into the hobby that dont want to actually get into it - properly enough to spend the right amount of money on a decent sized tank and good equipment, research and learn, and do good maintenance.

Now, the learner kits animates sell are fantastic little kits, not for 3 goldfish long term though. They are many ways you can look at the kits - they might get bought for kids, and the parents are under the impression theyll probably kill the fish (rough i know) or that its good to get into the hobby and they will slowly yearn for something bigger. How many fish keepers do you know who on day 1 of fish keeping, went and spent over $1000 on a tank and stuff? - only the ones with too much money to throw around.

[livingart]

I started this thread because although any one of us could go all vigilante and start contacting people, (as you suggest) I thought that the gravitas of the FNZAS behind this action might actually mean something happens. One person complaining is a fish nut. A national organization taking a stand against abusive practices is a force to be reckoned with.

hi T Rex you may need to start this through your local affiliated club and then go through the process

the SPCA is a national organization taking a stand against abusive practices concerning animals

the animal welfare act covers fish as well

http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/legislat ... /index.htm

[bdspider]

I'd really like it to be something our club and other clubs too hopefully can look into helping solve.

When friends see my tank, they often say things like "Oh cool tank. I've kept goldfish before but they always died so I don't think I'd manage something like yours!"

They don't actually realise that goldfish need a large tank and filter, just cos the common perception is that they can be kept in a bowl. It could even be beneficial for pet stores to get educated, they'd sell more items AND people wouldn't be put off fishkeeping cos their fish keep dying, so could be more likely to get MTS :lol:

Anyone who feels they'd like to take action, bring it up at your next meeting or email your pres/delegate to pass on to Jennifer. Let's see who's keen & figure out what we can do!

[SamH]

IWhen friends see my tank, they often say things like "Oh cool tank. I've kept goldfish before but they always died so I don't think I'd manage something like yours!"

Happens all the time

[Ira]

When I was in the US I talked to a nurse at the hospital who was talking about how his goldfish keep dieing. I asked him how often he changes his water and what kind of filtration it has? "What do you mean change the water?" *Facepalm*

[livingart]

i would say to approach this with caution as one oof the requirements of the act

the opportunity to display normal patterns of behaviour

could be applied to all fish kept in tanks

Key features of the Act include:

Obligation to care for animals

While penalties for ill-treatment of animals are still featured, there is greater emphasis on prevention. This is done by clearly establishing the obligations of those responsible for the care of animals. The needs of animals take note of the internationally recognised five freedoms:

proper and sufficient food and water

adequate shelter

the opportunity to display normal patterns of behaviour

physical handling in a way which minimises the likelihood of unreasonable or unnecessary pain or distress

protection from, and rapid diagnosis of, any significant injury or disease.

These obligations are qualified, however, as the needs in each individual case are assessed according to what is appropriate to the species, environment and circumstances of an animal.

[Tyrannosaurus]

hi T Rex you may need to start this through your local affiliated club and then go through the process

the SPCA is a national organization taking a stand against abusive practices concerning animals

the animal welfare act covers fish as well

http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/legislat ... /index.htm

Yes, I'm going to see what Jennifer thinks of all this, this was a great thread for getting feedback from both sides of the fence though.

[Tyrannosaurus]

I most certainly do work there. But that is work. And this is not, and I am quite unsure how or why that is relevant. I also work at a bank, and that too is irrelevant :lol:

I personally disagree with goldfish bowls and tiny tanks for them, just as I disagree with whaling or cruelty to animals. But I'm not about to support greenpeace / PETA because of the way they protest and instigate change - or try to.

Working in a pet store is only potentially relevant because you asked if anyone had written to a pet store etc, and advised against programs like Target, which are consumer affairs driven shows designed to get responses. It's also somewhat relevant if you work in a store that sells tiny tanks as goldfish tanks and say nothing (and I 've seen those Splish / Splash tanks in Animates) . Pointing out that a particular sales strategy is incorrect and likely to cause harm to the animals sold doesn't seem like an unprofessional thing to do, it seems like a very professional thing to do. It's a little ironic to call for greater education of the public and pet stores whilst simultaneously saying that you work for a pet store and don't say anything. (Unless of course, you have, and didn't mention it, in which case, good for you!)

Of course, you are free to do as you wish, however I don't think a call to Target (which again, isn't likely to be the first thing anyone, including me, does) is on par with boarding Japanese whaling ships, etc.

[livingart]

Of course, you are free to do as you wish, however I don't think a call to Target (which again, isn't likely to be the first thing anyone, including me, does) is on par with boarding Japanese whaling ships, etc.

will get publicity but may open up a can of worms

[phoenix44]

I do hope you are not implying that I compromise my integrity for a 'sales strategy'.

....you work for a pet store and don't say anything...

Don't assume that about me.

I also dislike how people that work in pet stores get alienated and generalised on websites like this. Especially since the employees that are actually contributing members on this site are the ones that know better than to recommend a 21L goldfish tank. Funny how those of us that work at such stores, (and there are many of us on here) get picked on and yet we are the ones that are about as likely to sell goldfish for 21L tanks as you are.

Secondly, when you make an argument - you need to be devoid of any emotional sentiment and base it on the facts. Emotive language is traditionally used to mask the shortcomings of what can potentially be a good debate.

[DennisP]

This is true, but, you can't deny that some Petshop employees don't know what they're talking about.

When I bought my BGK, the sales person told me they grow up to 1m, and use electricity to shock their prey and that there will be random casualties. I do know that they use electricity but only small amounts for location, and this lady really did over exaggerate how powerful they are.

And then there are the ones that are all about the $$$$

[spoon]

its not really fair to target pet shops the goal needs to be to educate the public the petshops will follow

[spoon]

This is true, but, you can't deny that some Petshop employees don't know what they're talking about.

When I bought my BGK, the sales person told me they grow up to 1m, and use electricity to shock their prey and that there will be random casualties. I do know that they use electricity but only small amounts for location, and this lady really did over exaggerate how powerful they are.

And then there are the ones that are all about the $$$$

haha thats more accurate than some stories imagine being told they will be fine with small neons once fully grown

[DennisP]

That is one thing she got right, she said it would not be fine with neons at all. After I had told her I had kept one before and mine with neons without any major problems she shut her mouth. :lol:

Mine wasn't any bigger than 20cm at the time that I was referring to in this story.

[livingart]

there is an expectation from joe public that when they go into a petshop that they are dealing with someone who knows what they are talking about

there are many people working in pet shops in nz

i think we have a small % of the total giving advice on here

[Tyrannosaurus]

I do hope you are not implying that I compromise my integrity for a 'sales strategy'.

Don't assume that about me.

I also dislike how people that work in pet stores get alienated and generalised on websites like this. Especially since the employees that are actually contributing members on this site are the ones that know better than to recommend a 21L goldfish tank. Funny how those of us that work at such stores, (and there are many of us on here) get picked on and yet we are the ones that are about as likely to sell goldfish for 21L tanks as you are.

Secondly, when you make an argument - you need to be devoid of any emotional sentiment and base it on the facts. Emotive language is traditionally used to mask the shortcomings of what can potentially be a good debate.

If you'd read the very next sentence, you would have seen that I didn't say that. You just quoted half my point, I'm not sure why as everyone can read what I really said and you know it too. Very odd.

Here's what my post said: It's a little ironic to call for greater education of the public and pet stores whilst simultaneously saying that you work for a pet store and don't say anything. (Unless of course, you have, and didn't mention it, in which case, good for you!)

You know what really kills debate? Taking things out of context and assuming personal insult where there is none.

I personally don't care if your day job is stabbing puppies. But if I make a post about how puppy stabbing needs to be stopped and you work at 'Pete's Puppy Stabbing Palace' and you tell me that the answer is not direct action against puppy stabbers but better education, I'm going to raise an eyebrow at that.

[DennisP]

If you'd read the very next sentence, you would have seen that I didn't say that. You just quoted half my point, I'm not sure why as everyone can read what I really said and you know it too. Very odd.

Here's what my post said: It's a little ironic to call for greater education of the public and pet stores whilst simultaneously saying that you work for a pet store and don't say anything. (Unless of course, you have, and didn't mention it, in which case, good for you!)

You know what really kills debate? Taking things out of context and assuming personal insult where there is none.

I personally don't care if your day job is stabbing puppies. But if I make a post about how puppy stabbing needs to be stopped and you work at 'Pete's Puppy Stabbing Palace' and you tell me that the answer is not direct action against puppy stabbers but better education, I'm going to raise an eyebrow at that.

Oh no! Oh no!

[smidey]

did we ever get that popcorn emoticon????

time for the FNZAS to take action?

i don't think so, the cops can't control a minority & they have sticks & guns. it would also create all sorts of other issues to get more legislation in our hobby which this will create if someone in the wrong place takes it seriously, look at the recent fish couriering situation for example.

it sucks that people put goldfish in bowls but your not going to stop people doing it. education is the only realistic approach to it, maybe a flyer to all people that buy fish referring them to a fish forum would be useful.

[Caryl]

When I complained to a chain store employee about the misleading pictures on the bowl containers she agreed with me but said they had told their head office when others had said the same thing and they weren't interested.

[DennisP]

Yes, education is definitely the way to do it.

Its what I was trying to get across with the bad press Idea. People would be talking about it, and would know the harm they are doing. And the shops would then stop misleading people by telling them its okay.

Not that all shops do this... yada yada yada...

[Scottie841]

Would you consider this too small for gold fish?

Juwel Korall 60 Goldfish Tank Package - $174.50

Size: 61 x 36 x 31 cm - approx 54L

Complete with filter & lighting

note: the picture on the box has 11 gold fish

[livingart]

just need a tank label

Fish Health Warning: Keeping more than 3cm in otal of fish in this tank will be injurious to their health.

[DennisP]

Didn't someone say that they have made small tanks illegal in germany?

As this is a german "goldfish" tank, it should be suitable.

Definitely not for 11 though.

[Stuartk]

]Be very careful what you wish for, for instance what size do you recommend as a minimum? You are looking at this from an advised position. Perhaps this is about positive education and the position of fish societies in each area to stimulate this knowledge through encouraging more people to meetings. Another avenue would be to go visit schools and kinder gardens, maybe sponsor a small tank or give a talk on the subject of keeping fish. Included in the talk would be favorable tank sizes etc. I am in total agreement with your sentiments, but lets not use a sledge hammer to crack a nut.

[bdspider]

Stuart K??? My friend is that you??

(This is Robyn)