Scottie841 Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Would you consider this too small for gold fish? Juwel Korall 60 Goldfish Tank Package - $174.50 Size: 61 x 36 x 31 cm - approx 54L Complete with filter & lighting note: the picture on the box has 11 gold fish If it is not OK then why do people not talk to one of the "reputable" shops on here before they start talking about Target or Fair Go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 If it is not OK then why do people not talk to one of the "reputable" shops on here before they start talking about Target or Fair Go? i don't think even target would not take this seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartk Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Yes its smee Robyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 The issue as I see it is if action like this was taken then what happens to the likes of myself who wish to purchase a smaller tank to breed my Apistos in. How are the shops supposed to differentiate between me wanting for that purpose or me wanting to give it to my friend for his or her goldfish. Just my thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 What about keeping Betta's in jars? What about Arowanas in >6ft tanks? What about Oscars (and other potentially large cichlids) in >4ft tanks? What about Angelfish in >2ft tanks? What about Silver sharks in >6ft tanks? What about Giant gouramis and Pacus in 4ft tanks? What about captive birds kept in cages with their wings clipped? I could go on all day. I sold one of the 21L goldfish learner kits today. And what? I educate people, and if im happy they have taken what ive said onboard (these fish are gunna need a bigger tank soon!) then I dont have too much of a problem. Not everyone can house fish adequately from day one that they get them as juveniles. If they spent $1000 getting setup, and then they kinda decide fish keeping may not be for them, then theyve wasted a lotta money. Yes its not ideal, but id rather people give the hobby a go rather than be put off as they have to spend up large straight away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 The issue as I see it is if action like this was taken then what happens to the likes of myself who wish to purchase a smaller tank to breed my Apistos in. How are the shops supposed to differentiate between me wanting for that purpose or me wanting to give it to my friend for his or her goldfish. Just my thoughts you would probably have to produce ID & your details would be noted for future raids on ellicit activities :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartk Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 I think that is fair comment MORCs and exactly what I was meaning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 What about keeping Betta's in jars? If this is done correctly, I see no harm in it. They way Thai breeders condition and clean the water in their jars is amazing, if they don't keep them perfect then there goes their money. But I get your point about the other things Morcs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdspider Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 Ugh, look at these morons --> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =295445212 They think it's funny they killed so many fish. Shame on trademe for putting it on the front page :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moya Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 I dunno. I feel kinda sorry for them. They have obviously tried and tried again. Perhaps they have never been informed on proper goldfish care and needs. I always feel a bit sorry for people who leave the hobby because they keep being unsuccessful at fish keeping, when probably all they needed was a good ear and someone with the right info. Either that or they did and they ignored it. In which case *anger*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartk Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 So instead of generating emotions how about one of you guys contacting them and offering advice to help......may it be just a joke ....lets not judge ......or are you just procrastinating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moya Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 That would be great! However the only medium for us to mention anything to them is through the questions section (as we don't have their details). I often feel compelled to write help in this section but worry that my comment will be misconstrued as accusative of them mistreating their fish. People can get quite defensive and offended, which isn't the best state to have them in when recommending better practice. Basically I cant think of a good enough way to word it to them. Also I'm mortally afraid of conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 Write it on a post it note and stick it on a tank :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moya Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 Hehe, that's the one. Passive aggressive note stickerer. Never actually done the note thing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 At one place I worked one of the managers had a goldfish bowl sitting on their desk. It hadn't had a water change in ages, half the water had evaporated, it was all murky and disgusting. So I set up a Gmail account "[email protected]" And sent them an email saying, "We have been advised of a goldfish in your care that is being neglected. If you do not begin regular water changes and taking proper care of your goldfish personnel will be sent to have it removed from your care for its protection." Next day the bowl was cleaner and full of water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartk Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 QED..... there is always a way..........a positive way..........when good people fail to act the less informed persons go on in ignorance...........so now I will have to act in kindness and with good intention...... the reaction to this is unknown, but welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartk Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 The item has gone from Trade Me I think.............when good people fail to act the person may go on in ignorance......it is better to have thoughts of a positive outcome than negative............they could have thanked you.......maybe set the tank up again........maybe joined the local fish club.......... become a forum user............ became active in the club......become your friend and so on ad infinitum. Best practice, synergies, balanced scorecard , symbiotic........all good, without actions they are just procrastination's and excuses........be the best you can and take up the challenge be positive in your world and I guarantee you will make a difference........for yourself and those around you.......shrug off the comfort zone and be positive in your life ..........I dare you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 How about the laws that were meant to be coming in that pet shop staff had to atttend short courses on handling and looking after various animals before they could sell them?? What happened to that? it would certainly be a way to regulate and standardise care and selling habits of stores and thereby the care and sale of fish to the general population. perhaps what we need is to develop informational supplies for pet shops. create a sticker for the window or something achievable, perhaps even within FNZAS that the store can strive to attain. once it gets going, and people hear about it, it will become like the MTA, where people actively look for the certification before they look at purchasing goods, knowing they are not getting ripped off, and getting good information! SPCA can get involved too. ie: "this store has attained the grandeur of being approved by the FNZAS for thier work to better animal husbandry techniques and information" or some hairy fairy thing like that, with noted standards, (ie, eash goldfish requires 10+ litres once fully grown) and information given to stores about the best way to sell and look after fish, and how to inform customers! It would also attract alot more people to the site where they can get advice and help. It also is pro-active rather than winging and whining. This has been me spitballing ideas, so don't shoot me down too quick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie841 Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 would like to point out something cool I found on one of HFF's pages. Now all we need is for shops to put a message like this on their "goldfish tanks" EDGE friendly species include White Cloud Mountain Minnows, Betta Splendens, Barbs, Danios, small Goldfish, Snails. Remember, Goldfish in particular grow so may need to be moved to a larger tank later in life HFF - Would it be possible to add a note like this to your other products? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdspider Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 I do like the idea of working with pet stores, rather than a legislation based answer. HFF's note is a good start. I like your post Cricketman. The reason I didn't post something informative on the auction is that in my experience, when I have given advice to people on matters like this they either don't care or tell me to mind my own business. I've become a cynic. Working on thinking more positive, but I'm jaded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartk Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 Now we are talking this is good stuff.............! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartk Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 What about FNZAS accredited aquarist shops and pet stores. Annually at the end of the year awards could be made to acknowledge service etc. Standards of entry and accreditation could be worked out by the FNZAS executive or nominated body with this sort of experience. This would raise the profile of the FNZAS and build good strong relationships with suppliers and industry patrons. There could also be a coordinator for all ideas, suggestions and submissions then through the executive they could be actioned and monitored for effectiveness. Does the forum agree to consider setting up a new heading asking for ideas into this, if yes can some one do it . I don't know how to yet! So Tyrannosaurus took action and look what has happened, we didn't all agree and we all had our opinions and an outlet to view them Good on ya Tyran the outcome is very positive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 What about FNZAS accredited aquarist shops and pet stores. Annually at the end of the year awards could be made to acknowledge service etc. Standards of entry and accreditation could be worked out by the FNZAS executive or nominated body with this sort of experience. This would raise the profile of the FNZAS and build good strong relationships with suppliers and industry patrons. e really good idea there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 Would this matter not be best remaining in the hands of the SPCA? Would a federation of fishkeeping clubs be regarded as experts in looking after rats, mice, cats and dogs etc even without the diverse opinions out there on the correct or best way to look after fish. It is regarded by many people to be cruel to keep any fish in any sized aquarium. Many others think it is cruel to catch fish on a hook and line just for pleasure and then let them go but I don't hear too many objections to that. We could be making a rod for our own backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 What about FNZAS accredited aquarist shops and pet stores. Annually at the end of the year awards could be made to acknowledge service etc. Standards of entry and accreditation could be worked out by the FNZAS executive or nominated body with this sort of experience. This would raise the profile of the FNZAS and build good strong relationships with suppliers and industry patrons. prettymuch what i was trying to get at! :lol: Would this matter not be best remaining in the hands of the SPCA? Would a federation of fishkeeping clubs be regarded as experts in looking after rats, mice, cats and dogs etc even without the diverse opinions out there on the correct or best way to look after fish. It is regarded by many people to be cruel to keep any fish in any sized aquarium. Many others think it is cruel to catch fish on a hook and line just for pleasure and then let them go but I don't hear too many objections to that. We could be making a rod for our own backs. To be honest, I have complained to the SPCA about the treatment of many animals in shops. Their response is usually "did you say something yourself?" "well, that might be enough," or "we are too busy" or they do go take a look..... a week later. SPCA is also not going to hand out information to pet shop employees on how best to house animals. They may have legislation, but lets face it, they are not doing spot checks or enforcing it on shops (not to my knowledge anyway!) Education is the key, and a body like the FNZAS has a wealth of information, and the government and public backing (public sector can only grow with recognition!) to do something about it! Yes it is diverse, but I think Fish get the worst wrap of all animals! They can't howl or squeel etc, and with fish shops letting people think that 21L is okay for as many fish as they can cram in there. There is definately a trend, wouldn't you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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