Tyrannosaurus

Sometimes that's the way it goes. If they've been in the same tank together for three days or more without spawning, I'd give them a break from one another. It also helps if you put the female in the tank with the male, but separate them until they both show signs of being ready. (Male has a bubble nest, female has the vertical breeding bars.)

Hey, not sure what the question about water refers to, it's a tropical tank, does that help? Silver dollars? Thanks for the suggestion! I will look into them.

Hi everybody. I have a 250 liter tank with a JD (coming up 15 cm or so) a jewel cichlid, a synodontis (about 15 cm too) and a red tail shark. Here's my problem: the tank looks empty because all these fish are fairly retiring. You see the red tail shark every now and then, but other than that, it's hiding behind rocks central. Are there any fish that will be fast enough to avoid the JD, and also provide a bit of movement and color to the tank in the mid to top regions? It really does look as though I'm just running an empty tank 90% of the time, and I'd like to change that.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have heard the dropsy/ bloodworm connection before, and I don't feed bloodworms because of it. I do find it frustrating that fighters can seem fine one day and be listing about half dying the next even when their water is super clean and their tank-mates are doing fine. I tend to keep my fighters in either communal tanks (for non aggressive females) or in filtered separated tanks for males. It just seems as if there's almost no correlation between their conditions and their health. Interesting point about the smaller tanks with the 100% water changes, is that what you do, David-lw? Your fighters are magnificent! When they keep them in ponds, are there males and females all mixed in together? How does that work with aggression? Is it simply survival of the fittest?

I've been keeping fish 'properly' for maybe a year now, and though I started with fighters and still have quite a few, I have observed that fighters seem particularly prone to ailments (particularly those resulting in dropsy type conditions) , much more so than other fish. For example, since I started keeping fish I've had the fighters, a jack dempsey, an oscar, danios, a synodontis catfish, a jewel cichlid, a red tail shark and a bunch of baby angels. In that time I've lost none of the fish apart from fighters to illnesses, in fact, the worst thing that's occurred to any fish other than the fighters is that they got a bit of white spot a year or so ago. Since then, they've all been fighting fit, pardon the pun. Fighters have a reputation for being incredibly hardy, but that hasn't been my experience. I see too on the boards here that people seem to lose their fighters almost randomly on occasion. I have noticed that some fighters seem hardier than others however, I have some who have been with me since the beginning and some 'batches' that just all die off one by one for mysterious reasons of their own accord. So, what's the deal? Are there some NZ fighters that are just constitutionally weak?

Your fish are always inspirational David

Thanks He is pretty, just goes to show that it pays to keep your eyes open and check the fish stocks even if you're only there for dog food

It's interesting that they import the plain / blue red ones. If you look on Aquabid, where Americans can buy bettas from Thailand, there are some truly stunning bettas out there, in a different league entirely to the plain veil tails and ct's you see in our stores. I'm just confused as to why, if people are importing them, they're not importing a higher standard. These are just a couple I picked off Aqua Bid completely at random, and they're a million miles better than anything you see in our pet stores:

Really? I am surprised they bother considering there are so many NZ breeders (like yourself for instance) who breed far nicer fish domestically.

He's in a filtered tank with room to swim now, so once he gets over the shock of that, he should do quite well. Does anyone know where those red / blue veil tail and crowntail standard pet store bettas come from? They're all so similar looking it's hard to believe that they're not all originating from the same source.

Yeah, I think they all come from the same place too. I'm not sure where this guy originated from.

I googled the dalmatian term and you're right, that is what they call them. Or rather that's what they call the red streaked ones as far as I can see... I don't know if that's what they call red and blue streaked ones. I thought he was lovely, there was no way I was leaving him behind once I saw him

His fins look a wee bit missed up, but that's not entirely surprising as he was pretty much swimming in his own filth at the store >.< I think he's very pretty though, just keeping my fingers crossed that those red streaks are natural red coloring and not crazy fin rot raging out of control.

If you'd read the very next sentence, you would have seen that I didn't say that. You just quoted half my point, I'm not sure why as everyone can read what I really said and you know it too. Very odd. Here's what my post said: It's a little ironic to call for greater education of the public and pet stores whilst simultaneously saying that you work for a pet store and don't say anything. (Unless of course, you have, and didn't mention it, in which case, good for you!) You know what really kills debate? Taking things out of context and assuming personal insult where there is none. I personally don't care if your day job is stabbing puppies. But if I make a post about how puppy stabbing needs to be stopped and you work at 'Pete's Puppy Stabbing Palace' and you tell me that the answer is not direct action against puppy stabbers but better education, I'm going to raise an eyebrow at that.

Working in a pet store is only potentially relevant because you asked if anyone had written to a pet store etc, and advised against programs like Target, which are consumer affairs driven shows designed to get responses. It's also somewhat relevant if you work in a store that sells tiny tanks as goldfish tanks and say nothing (and I 've seen those Splish / Splash tanks in Animates) . Pointing out that a particular sales strategy is incorrect and likely to cause harm to the animals sold doesn't seem like an unprofessional thing to do, it seems like a very professional thing to do. It's a little ironic to call for greater education of the public and pet stores whilst simultaneously saying that you work for a pet store and don't say anything. (Unless of course, you have, and didn't mention it, in which case, good for you!) Of course, you are free to do as you wish, however I don't think a call to Target (which again, isn't likely to be the first thing anyone, including me, does) is on par with boarding Japanese whaling ships, etc.

Yes, I'm going to see what Jennifer thinks of all this, this was a great thread for getting feedback from both sides of the fence though.

Yeah, I use those little splish and splash tanks as individual fighting fish tanks, and they're awesome for that. Not so awesome for a fish that, if grown in the proper conditions would be longer than the tank is.

Oh wait, someone said you work at Animates, Phoenix? If that is true, then you must know full well that there are people working in these stores who know better because you're one of them. If I'm misinformed and you don't work at Animates, then never mind. Does it not strike you as criminal that pet stores, ie, stores that set themselves up as experts in pets are so completely ignorant of actual pet care, or worse, intentionally misleading as to perpetuate what are undoubtedly thousands of deaths a year? It's not as if this is merely a product stores are accidentally selling, it is a well known fact of fish care that you can't keep a goldfish in a 20 liter tank and two minutes of research online confirms the fact. I think it is naive to suggest that pet stores are simply the good guys who are a little ignorant. They make thousands of dollars from selling these tanks and that's why they do it. It is greed and nothing else. A line of cat toys was pulled because people love cats and because a dead cat often means a hysterical owner. Goldfish, on the other hand, are treated almost as non entities. I started this thread because although any one of us could go all vigilante and start contacting people, (as you suggest) I thought that the gravitas of the FNZAS behind this action might actually mean something happens. One person complaining is a fish nut. A national organization taking a stand against abusive practices is a force to be reckoned with.

That is a great idea. Maybe a call to Target or one of those other consumer affairs programs is in order.

You mean a national referendum? I don't think it need come to that. Laws are made every day that affect us all in much deeper and more profound ways than how we keep goldfish. Actually, I think this could probably be handled under the current laws that require vendors not lie to clients about the suitability of their products. Those splish and splash nano tanks from Aqua One which claim to be goldfish tanks fall into that category quite neatly, as do those Marina products. It's not so much the tanks that are the issue as it is the fact that people are outright lied to by businesses posing as experts. If a mechanic told people to put salt in their petrol tanks so he could make more money by fixing them when they broke, then we'd hear about it. As it is, people are lied to and told that goldfish can live in these bowls, and quite often end up coming in to buy 'replacements' every few months until they give up, blaming the goldfish for dying so easily, never knowing that they were effectively swindled out of their money.

I will defer to wiser veterinary heads on this one. Perhaps Jennifer might weigh in if she sees this and give you the precise details of what it does to fish when we keep them in bowls far too small for them.

I think pet stores know. The thing is, getting them to stop selling small tanks as goldfish bowls, and as somebody else said, instead selling them as 'nano' tanks. More education is definitely required. Facebook is a good idea too.

I agree with the second statement, as I said in the latter part of my opening post, those nano tanks are awesome for fish like fighters who need solitary space but not gallons of it.

Some people may very well insist on torturing goldfish anyway, but the disturbing thing is pet stores are selling nano tanks as 'goldfish bowls'. People are being told by those they consider to be experts that it is okay to keep their goldfish in these tanks. That's a major problem.

I believe the answer to this is yes. If you'd been locked in a small room that didn't allow you to grow properly and as an adult you were all, forgive the colloquialism, 'munted', I think you'd agree that damage had been done beyond stunted growth. I know fish aren't humans, but the analogy applies across all species. Anything kept in substandard conditions be it human, fish or bird, does poorly throughout their lives. But the real issue is the fact that its impossible to filter a 20 liter tank with goldfish in it properly. I rescued three that had been kept in a tiny tank recently, (they've now found pond homes) and keeping up with them in a 20 gallon with a canister filter was hard enough. Goldfish must actually be incredibly hardy, but most people sold those silly bowls keep them in such horrible conditions that even goldfish can't tolerate them. Other countries have already taken action on this issue, but NZ doesn't seem to care about goldfish, or even the fact that people are basically profiting by selling people products (fish) that will need to be replaced every few months because, for some unknown reason, (known to anybody who bothered to do five minutes of internet research as ammonia poisoning) they die.