Car choice

[mac]

I am slowly getting in the market to get a second play car. I am thinking anything around $5,000 cash. But must have over 200HP, unless it is a Toyota Truneo BZR.

Anyway I have a 1995 Mitsubishi Diamante 3.0r 166kw motor. Dam cheap to run and very reliable. So was thinking maybe another one?

Any car considered bar American cars or Ford.

Cheers.

mac

[ryanjury]

Anything with a black top 4age in it is alot of fun and quite easy to get them going faster.. Other than that you would probably be looking at a turbo I am unsure what sort of reliability you would get for those $$?

[mac]

Yar I love the black top. Just love them so much. Very hard to choose anything else.

As for the Turbos mine would thrash a standard skyline turbo sedan. But only just. That my issue for the turbo.

But for the black top. I really want one. Hmm any tips on more than 160hp at the fly?

[Carlos & Siran]

So's you know I know absolutely diddly about Mechanics but...

I know they're not particularly fast but I love those little suzuki swifts with the sports kits on them, there must be some way you could tweak em, they look like a lot of fun.

[bdspider]

I love suzuki swifts, have always wanted one. They're so fun and easy to drive.

[spoon]

my friend has a suzuki ignis sport it looks like a nana car but is very zippy plus it has the most amazing handling we went over the port hills in nelson going around the corners so fast without even squeling a tyre my honda would have been sledging at half the speed. from memory the suzuki had a low top end speed it struggled to get over 175 but got there rather quick i think the gearing or the final drive ratio had a lot to do with this . i would say it has a lot of potential as it was stock not even a pod filter also the tyres were just 14inch supercats so handling could be further improved with better tyres

[Scottie841]

Toyota Truneo BZR.

I assume you are referring to the AE111 LEVIN it is not a Trueno it is a LEVIN!!!

If you want some extra power you can improve the air flow by using 4 small (motorcycle) air filters on the intakes. Other thank that they dont need a lot of work to make them quick

[Morcs]

5th gen prelude? 200hp, not ancient. very nice cars inside and out and nice to drive.

[David R]

What do you mean by "play car"? If you want something quick and reliable to take to club track days, hill climbs etc (entry level motorsport sorta thing) then for the kind of budget you're on you'd be hard pressed to go past an early-mid 90's honda civic or integra. The dohc vtec engines are about as good as it gets for factory non-turbo motors (sorry ryan, but a 4age has got nothing on a b16a!), the EG and DC chassis both handle well with the right modifications, there are loads of cheap parts,and if you keep your eye out you may even find one with a few mods to make it more track-ready (suspension, intake/exhaust etc). For $5k if you look around you could pick up a real bargain if you're patient, I've seen a few "unfinished project" cars going for around that price, including an eg civic with a b18cr type R integra motor in it!

Honestly, if you have a drive of a few tweaked hondas you'll forget all about the levin, and the diamante will feel like a slow heavy tank.

Try the Vehicle Exchange on NZHondas.com http://nzhondas.com/forum/vehicle-exchange/

[Scottie841]

What do you mean by "play car"? If you want something quick and reliable to take to club track days, hill climbs etc (entry level motorsport sorta thing) then for the kind of budget you're on you'd be hard pressed to go past an early-mid 90's honda civic or integra. The dohc vtec engines are about as good as it gets for factory non-turbo motors (sorry ryan, but a 4age has got nothing on a b16a!), the EG and DC chassis both handle well with the right modifications, there are loads of cheap parts,and if you keep your eye out you may even find one with a few mods to make it more track-ready (suspension, intake/exhaust etc). For $5k if you look around you could pick up a real bargain if you're patient, I've seen a few "unfinished project" cars going for around that price, including an eg civic with a b18cr type R integra motor in it!

Honestly, if you have a drive of a few tweaked hondas you'll forget all about the levin, and the diamante will feel like a slow heavy tank.

Try the Vehicle Exchange on NZHondas.com http://nzhondas.com/forum/vehicle-exchange/

Standard civic (or integra) v standard levin? The Levin will win every time. for the engine size it is a good car. Having driven both I would never buy a honda. I had the displeasure of looking after a "tweaked" type R integra and it was horrible. It has the steering lock that is about the same as bus. Also for the amount of fuel they use in comparison to the Levin I would have (and do have) the Levin. Yes the Integra will be cheaper but it is cheaper for a reason

[phoenix44]

buy a 1992 mitsubishi GTO TT.

Itll break down every so often and cost you a fortune in gas.

totally worth it though.

[supasi]

I love suzuki swifts, have always wanted one. They're so fun and easy to drive.

I wouldnt want one. My Mother has one. Having the same car as her is just not good for my cool status. LOL

I am a Toyota fan myself. But I like cars that are practical, so I own a wagon.

My idea of a toy is a 4X4

[David R]

Standard civic (or integra) v standard levin? The Levin will win every time. for the engine size it is a good car

I'm not sure about in absolutely bog standard condition, but with light mods a b16a will kill a 4age any day. Stock a b16a2 and 20v black top 4age both make 160hp, but if you look at 1/4 mile times and dyno figures its no great secret which one responds better to modifications. When I first bought my civic I took it to the nightwars with a friend who had a 20v levin, both had intake/exhaust done, both on street tyres, both full interior, and mine was consistently half a second faster. I've seen b16a's with no internal modifications make 110-118kw at the wheels on the dyno, never seen a modified 4age make anywhere near that.

Perhaps you could post up some times and/or figures from your levin? My eg6 with a b16a with an intake, header and a ghetto exhaust with a stock civic type r muffler (quiet but restrictive) ran a 14.4 on street tyres. A friends EG with similar mods (but a decent exhaust) ran a 13.7 on slicks and has lapped pukekohe in 1.11.

As for the steering lock thing, the EG6 civic has a terrible lock and its considerably less than even other EG's for some unknown reason. TBH, in the 5 years I owned one I never had a problem with it, and having driven countless other hondas (DB8R, NZDM DC2R, orthia, EK4, EK9) I've never noticed them to be worse than average. But hey, if you want to trade what are widely considered to be the best factory built naturally aspirated engines (by pretty much anyone other than one-eyed toyota fans) for a better steering lock and [arguably] slightly better fuel economy thats your choice.

[Scottie841]

4AGE 20v

black-top 20 Valve 4A-GELU Engine(Japanese-spec) in 1996 Carina GT black-top 20 Valve 4A-GELU Engine(Japanese-spec) in 1996 Carina GT

A special 4A-GE was produced from 1991 through 1998 to replace the 4A-GZE. It was a naturally-aspirated engine with an additional intake valve for each cylinder, making it one of the first production 5-valve engines in history. These generation engines also featured quad throttle bodies. The engine can be recognized by its silver or black top. This was the last of the 4A family to be produced. Toyota VVT was used for 160–165 hp (123–127 kW) at 7800 rpm and 120 ft·lbf (162 N·m) at 5600 rpm, quite impressive for a naturally-aspirated 1.6 L engine. Note that although VVT was present in the silver top and the black top 4A-GE, VVT-i was not available.

I have not run the car on a track so dont have any times but know it is quick. Judging by the numbers above it has a higher kW rating standard than the 118kW you mentioned above

[David R]

That is 118kw at the wheels, measured by a dyno, in real life. A a claim by a manufacturer is hardly relevant to a 10+ year old engine with 100,000kms+ wear and tear. I don't think I've ever seen a stock 4ag make over 100kw at the wheels on a dyno.

Factory figures for the b16;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_B_engine#B16

JDM B16a1 118kw @ 7600rpm

JDM B16a2 125kw @ 7800rpm

JDM B16b (type R) 136kw @ 8200rpm

[Scottie841]

I have never had mine on a dyno because I dont race it it is just a street car.

But on a side note you should have a read of the link below. It is a nice little car

I've seen b16a's with no internal modifications make 110-118kw at the wheels on the dyno, never seen a modified 4age make anywhere near that.

http://www.performancecar.co.nz/article ... arfare-153

Performance: Dyno Power – 210kW at the wheels

[phoenix44]

so much for a $5000 car with 200BHP :lol: LOL

I don't understand kiloWatts, but 125kW is still under 200BHP yea?

My brother's old GTO (mine for a month :lol: ) produced 380BHP 4wd TT, 24psi boost if needed

get one of them. probably more than 5k though.

[Scottie841]

He sould get the car for that price then work on it over time

[David R]

Power aint everything P44, the GTO's are big cars, not to mention expensive to maintain (has you brother ever priced up a gearbox?). They can be made quick, but there is a good reason they aren't as popular with big power tuners/racers in Japan as the likes of the GTR, supra, rx7 etc.

http://www.performancecar.co.nz/articles/1995-toyota-levin-bz-g-frontline-warfare-153

Performance: Dyno Power – 210kW at the wheels

Not bad, but anything you can do...

http://www.performancecar.co.nz/article ... -civic-127

Performance: Dyno Power – 306kW @ wheels (8000rpm, 20psi boost), 0-400m 11.9 @ 121mph, 1.19 Manfeild, 1.55 full Taupo track.

I didn't see any actual times for the Toyota, is it just a show pony? I know Hayden through the honda club (and I think his mum is on this forum actually!) and I've seen that car going round the track many times, and it is bloody quick!

Comparing extensively modified cars like those two is a bit pointless really, I could post an article about a sohc vtec honda shuttle making around 700hp in the US, you can get big power out of almost anything with the right engineering and money, and its not necessarily a reflection of how good the base motor/car is.

[Scottie841]

my link was purely because you said "never seen a modified 4age make anywhere near that"

[phoenix44]

Power aint everything P44, the GTO's are big cars, not to mention expensive to maintain (has you brother ever priced up a gearbox?).

LOL. I gave the car back to him after I spent $1200 in 1 month on petrol alone. :-?

Was so much fun though. He sold it immediately afterwards.

Fun car to drive though. but there were some extensive modifications from what i remember -

new sports clutch,

new ecu,

new exhaust system,

tires (omg.. i had to buy 2... :-? )

and that's what i remember.

Then there was the $700 spent everytime something needed to be done in the engine...cause you gotta remove the engine to get to it :lol:

Practicality value - 3 out of 10.

Fun value - 9 out of 10.

[David R]

my link was purely because you said "never seen a modified 4age make anywhere near that"

Sorry, I should have said "stock 4age with basic bolt-ons". I know they can make good power, 240hp NA forumla atlantic engines are highly tuned 4age's and I've got a friend who had a turbo 4agze levin making close to 200kw at the wheels, I was thinking more around the OP's budget though.

As for the GTO, if the OP wants a weekend play car then an old GTO could fit the bill if he wants a classic for cruising the country roads on the weekends. They're quite a cool little car, and with the 2L astron motor they go alright for their age.

[smidey]

thats a torana wannabe :lol:

[paul_r]

realistically not really going to get a very decent 200hp turbo car for $5000, mayb a det skyline or cef but they arnt exactly all that fast

Realistically a honda will be your best bang for buck performance wise, im a toyota fan myself having a ae101 st levin as my crusty daily and a 5efte ep82 starlet as my project.

The 4age is a sweet motor but the silvertops powercurve is nothing to get excited about, the blacktop on the other hand performs well...just like any 4age, make sure its always got oil

[mac]

What do you mean by "play car"? If you want something quick and reliable to take to club track days, hill climbs etc (entry level motorsport sorta thing) then for the kind of budget you're on you'd be hard pressed to go past an early-mid 90's honda civic or integra. The dohc vtec engines are about as good as it gets for factory non-turbo motors (sorry ryan, but a 4age has got nothing on a b16a!), the EG and DC chassis both handle well with the right modifications, there are loads of cheap parts,and if you keep your eye out you may even find one with a few mods to make it more track-ready (suspension, intake/exhaust etc). For $5k if you look around you could pick up a real bargain if you're patient, I've seen a few "unfinished project" cars going for around that price, including an eg civic with a b18cr type R integra motor in it!

Honestly, if you have a drive of a few tweaked hondas you'll forget all about the levin, and the diamante will feel like a slow heavy tank.

Try the Vehicle Exchange on NZHondas.com http://nzhondas.com/forum/vehicle-exchange/

Sorry I can't really agree. Just took out a 1997 Honda Prelude Sir type s. And man it is a nice handling car, but the inside was falling apart. Well not that bad. But add another hundred k and it would. It only had 56,000 on it. but was nearly 8k. Not me. Found a good cheap prelude 1992 nice and solid. But the 180hp vtec is a slug. As for the Integra man high revy slugs. I took one out and been in heaps. Not me. Just not me. I dragged one and thrashed it, it was slightly edging forward but once I hit past 100 it lost till I hit my limiter, still got to get the ecu fixed up. Mine Diamante dose standard 15.7 sec in a quarter mile in a large saloon, no that slow. My is slightly modded so who knows. My Question is have you ever driven my type of car that may not be sick or got a bad tranny. Mine has been fixed up a wee bit so it is not fully factory any way. And it is auto. Best I can do to 100 with out pushing is 7 sec. So by far it is not a tank.

Now I know hondas are great. If I had 20k I would get a 06 Honda Accord v6. Or 10k a Torneo euro R.

But I find to many of them have very poor build quality in side. Just to american for me.

But for me I am a big fan of the 4age motor. And love them.

As for Mits GTO TT love them to. And I have same motor as one 6g72 just not the turbo. Very good car. Can get EXP but that is because they are never serviced. Not really sure yet. Still looking. but I am really thinking of getting a Toyota Trueno BZ-R just not sure. Maybe if I could find a good Soarer v8, or a good vw phassat 1.8 turbo then fix it up, or if I can get a one with 4 owners on it a BMW 328I sedan.

mac