reef Posted June 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 400w could be cheaper over short term but long term it could cost far more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 I have heard this a few time, but how much cheaper are the 400w bulb really??? I think the last 250w DE I got was about $120-$130. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 Bit of spare time on yr hands lately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 I have heard this a few time, but how much cheaper are the 400w bulb really??? I think the last 250w DE I got was about $120-$130. 400 w bulbs are about that price too. Around $120 Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 Retail 400 watters can be had for $100.00, you may get cheaper on the net or buying in larger quantities. Reflectors make a big difference but the fact of the matter is 400s put out more light, its not proportional for the exta 150 watts, but it is significiently more than the 250DEs. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 but it is significiently more than the 250DEs. Using a 400W lamp over a 250W lamp one would expect to see about 60% increase in PPFD, but clearly this is not the case based on the lamps tested. Given the costs of electricity in most places, I think its time for aquarists to seriously reconsider the use of 400W 10000K lamps(FEATURE ARTICLE by SANJAY JOSHI AND TIMOTHY MARKS) Based on the article it is about 18%. which is no much. Also having used both 250w and 400w i would really agree with the article as i have not had any real gains on my tank which would justify the extra power. So if anyone is in the market for 400w double units with new bulbs .PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 Aesthetically I think, for the same total wattage, an extra 250 watt DE would look nicer...But more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 Thats the killer though, the additional bulb replacement costs and initial purchase prices. A 400watt bulb should give 37.5% more light than a 250watt (all things being equal) given the additional power consumption. Because of the configuration of the DE, the reality (as per Reefs quotes above) show they are actually provide 20% more light not the 37.5% expected from the additional power consumption. Take into account the the 18% more light, and the cost savings from the bulbs replacements and 400s are looking like a winner from where I am sitting. Example - My own tank: 5x 400watt bulb replacement assuming 12 months from a bulb = $500 a year. (Total 1475watts) 6x 250watt bulb replacement assuming 12 months from a bulb = $720. (Total 1500watts) Also 400 watt ballasts and bulb holders are MUCH cheaper than the DE HQI types (I paid $100ea new for mine). So does the $220.00 saving from bulb replacements make up for the additional 500watts of power consumed annually? Also consider that this 18% is a 'mean average' and all things are not equal. Light penetration for deep tanks is much better for 400s than 250s, light spread with like reflectiors is also wider with the SEs. This can of course be solved with smarter reflectors for the DEs, giving less spread for more penetration. Then take light spectrum into account. With the loss of intensitiy from higher kelvin lights (14-20k) its possible with a 400 14k to have the same light intensitiy as a 250 10k without the yellowed light present in these lower kelvin lights. No doubt that both a great options, I have used both 250DE and 400SE. Personally i'd use the 400s, my coral growth and colour speaks for itself. Note I did not get anywhere near the colour or growth (sustained) with my old lighting system. However thats on 2 different tanks so may not be the best from a control group point of view. If I could do my own tank again would I use 250watt DE over 400watt SE on my own tank? No way. If money was no concern i'd just use more 400s Also note than in a tank as wide as mine, getting light accross the with of the tank is more of a concern than along the length. Piezola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 Take into account the the 18% more light, and the cost savings from the bulbs replacements and 400s are looking like a winner from where I am sitting. 18% more light is really nothing as it is 18 % of what? 400w ballast cost more than 250w ballast. 400w bulbs cost more than $100. Unless you get 4000k bulbs. I rang radium lighting and they cost $120 plus GST. End of the day it is much the same price, it comes down to the amount of power and for me the extra 18% light is nothing as most coral don’t sit on the ground they are half way up or more. 400w unit cost about 30% more as you can’t have a DIY special in lounge unless you can hide the lights. I have actually seen tanks with 150w metal halides that are getting great colours and growth. So more light is not always better. I think for efficiency per watt, 150w wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 Pies prices are correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 Pies prices are correct! Make, model,kelvin, retailer etc, $100 is not the normal price, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Radium bulbs $100ea incl GST. 400w ballast cost more than 250w ballast. No. $100ea incl GST from Radium including 3pin lead. Add $15.00 retail ($9 wholesale) for the bulb holder. Mind you I havn't looked for 250watt DE ballasts for quite some time so maybee they are cheaper, happy to be wrong on this point, but suspect most people have paid considerable more than $100ea for their own. 400w unit cost about 30% more as you can’t have a DIY special in lounge unless you can hide the lights. If your talking about units like Arcadia or whatever I am not sure what they cost new/wholesale. However DIY SPECIALS are obviously acceptable as they are easy to hide, your system like mine is a great example of DIY lighting looking great in the home. I personally think the lighting system on my own tank looks great, and the cost to me was $1100.00 including bulbs (thats for 5x 400watt). I think you will be hard pressed to find better prices new anywhere. the results speak for themselves. Piemania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 5x 400watt bulb replacement assuming 12 months from a bulb = $500 a year which 400w bulbs cost $100??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Radium Blue. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 radium blue, have to replace every 6 months, so thay cost $200 a year .can use them longer however big colour change. The higher the kelvin rating the less the lamps will last. think you will be hard pressed to find better prices new anywhere i got a better price, my new light is costing about $4000. cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Not sure, have read all sorts of vaired info on this. Am going to run mine for 12 months and see how it goes. Havn't got to first bulb replacement yet, so I am sure when I do replace my first bulb i'll be in a better position to know when to replace them. So far I am about 9 months in and everything looks the same to me and coral growth and colour and more than acceptable and no algae problems. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 I alway through I was pretty good at maths, but I'm not sure how $4000 is cheaper than $1100???? Of course I'm happy to believe you, my faith in your maths is so strong I will even go so far as to offer to swap $1100 cash of mine for $4000 of yours. :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 i think it was a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 4 Grand for lights? In all fairness how can you be even remotely concerned about the power costs when you are $2900.00 more expensive from day one! hehehe. Piezola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveA Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Not sure, have read all sorts of vaired info on this. Am going to run mine for 12 months and see how it goes. Pie My last bulbs were radium blues and I did use them for a good year. They did dim slightly and change colour a bit towards the end but the corals didn't care. I would have no hesitation using them again (will have to if I persue my 2 x 1000W idea). Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Can easily see 4 grand. I just set up 3 x 4 foot frag tanks, and even going totally cheapskate, plus importing some stuff, it's cost me around 1500 to supply the lighting. Going to cost a grand a year in bulbs also, if I'm lucky. Which brings up - Why do some people think 25 bucks is too much for a cultured frag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Which brings up - Why do some people think 25 bucks is too much for a cultured frag? They do? Me personaly. We have been working on frags being worth $25ea. I think its a fair price for a good condition coral. I would rather swap, but often refuse to give corals away, as have spent thousands on colonies myself. Also I think if they are too cheap/free they are less likley to be appreciated, and I want to know they are going to survive, as it takes ages to grow them. That being said there are many people I have given frags too as well, knowing that they will give me something one day or may help me out with other things. Stick to your guns, $25.00 is not a lot of money and seems a fair price for an captive animal. Frag should be in good condition, attached to a rock and be of a reasonable size (bigger than a thumb). Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 3x4 footers??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Yes, it's in the garage. Feel way better with a bit more frag floor space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 how high will the tank be??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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