Has anyone seen this article on Stuff?????

[Warren]

the guy had chlorine poured in 12 tanks and any daino he had got killed

Where did this info come from? Is it fact or just something made up or heard second or third hand?

[Ianab]

Initial problem.. the fish were declared as dyed when they were imported. Not easy to tell a dyed fish from a GE coloured fish.

But when the fish bred true to the colour, then it became obvious that they weren't dyed and must have been GE. Given the fuss over the GE corn a few years back, MAF isn't going to just let this slide. I would guess they are steralising tanks to prevent any eggs/fry being left behind, and taking normal danios as well incase they are 1/2 GE offspring that still carry the GE genes.

While I feel a bit of sympathy for the people innocently caught up in this, the fish ARE illegal, even if you bought them in good faith. Trying to hide them isn't going to do you any favours, MAF in some ways have more powers than the police. If I had any I would be isolating them from my normal fish NOW, then handing them over to avoid further legal troubles.

Buying some in good faith, OK they should destroy them and let you off, deliberatly hiding them WILL get you prosecuted for sure.

Cheers

Ian

[BK]

If MAF cocked up shouldn't they pay for the clean up. When it comes to importing livestock I have no fath in Goverment departments knowing what they are doing and why they are doing it. How can they justify allowing chicken eggs into the country but not parrots. Some reasonable standards across the board would restore some faith. Wouldn't it have been better for MAF to say that these fish arn't allowed in NZ so for the next month offer a $ reward for fish and after this time then charge people that still have them. These are rigth around NZ now and only CHCH as been raided, doesn't seem like they have done a very good job. From what I've heard this is only about 1/4 of the fish that was sold by the first store down here. 12 tanks is rigth I think. Only Danio's killed the other fish in the tank where remove so they weren't to bad with the guy. Some times brown stuff happens.

[alanmin4304]

It was a few years back now, but I asked a senior Maf guy about why they banned importing turtles and when he said salmonella I TOLD HIM IT WAS PORKIES and he got all upset and said they would consider importing eggs (which could also carry salmonella). He also said they would consider importing goldfish eggs after they had banned the importation of them. They use the arguement of parrot fever (psittacosis) against importing parrots. When I was investigating a case of psittacosis years ago (and had been asked by the Medical Officer of Health to destroy the parrots in the shop the birds had come from)I was advised by the vet treating the parrots that it was indemic in the wild pidgeon population in Christchurch (just like salmonella is in the sparrow population). I think a lot of these decisions have more to do with politics than public health. The main problem would be the horrendous cost involved in meeting maf requirements which I think often have little to do with the requirements for quarantine and more to do with hidden agendas. My experience with maf over importing goldfish has made me a little cynical---as you can no doubt tell.

[BK]

They have parrot fever in the North Island as well so there is no reason to stop the import. As you say Allan its got more to do with what people think than what the facts are on the ground.

[alanmin4304]

About two years after I had a domestic with maf, threw a hissy and gave importing away I got a letter from maf saying my quarantine facility was still listed in the gazette and did I wish to continue importing sheep and goats otherwise they would remove it from the gazette. I was that pissed off with them that I burned it. I wish I had kept it now--- it could have been fun importing sheep and goats into a residential area with maf approval.

[BK]

Yet again they show us that they don't know what they are going. Sure as hell wouldn't let them fix my push bike let only deal with living beings.

[Faran]

MAF did the right thing here. The fish were "accidentally imported" and should have never been let into the country. The fish were removed and euthanized by a vet, and the tanks sterilized. This is common practice with these situations and a similar action was taken when a person was interrupted "accidentally importing" plants over a year ago in Auckland.

Why are you all up in arms against MAF doing their jobs? I can remember at least a dozen threads over the past year that have been removed by the people that run this site declaring something should be done about it and now there's objections when something is done? Any reasonable person could just look at the fish and the coloured offspring and know something was funky. I'm just happy that something has finally been done.

Silver lining - I bet we don't see any dyed or tattooed fish for a LONG time!!!

[Loopy]

if Biosecurity were to come to peoples homes Is there any way we could stop them commimg in.

Do they need a warrent to search peoples houses (like the police do) or can they just come in an search.

Why would you want to stop them coming in?? I found them very pleasant to deal with when they came round to about the eels.

Perhapes if everyone co-operates with MAF instead of complaining and pleading ignorance. I doubt they are out to just ruin our fun. They aren't some all seeing god-like being. They are a bunch of normal people who have to do their job like the rest of us and make mistakes like the rest of us.

cichlid7 wrote:

the guy had chlorine poured in 12 tanks and any daino he had got killed

Where did this info come from? Is it fact or just something made up or heard second or third hand?

I think it would just be secondhand info.

fish were declared as dyed when they were imported. Not easy to tell a dyed fish from a GE coloured fish.

I disagree. Take a look at pictures on the net of dyed fish.

The colours are washed out, patchy, irregular, usually bigger fish are dyed. The dyed fish have short lifespan due to the stress they are put under and are highly susceptible to diseases, Not all the fins are affected by the dye, The colours can fade over time too. And the offspring would not be coloured.

Then there are the glofish...

http://www.glofish.com/images/glofish_037.jpg

Even consistant colour that affects the whole body, that won't fade over time. Fish probably live and have all the characteristics of a standard natural, healthy danio.

Another observation that i have made is that i can't seem to find anything about dyed danios. That doesn't mean they don't exist but there are "better" fish to dye than a danio. And the only aquarium fish i can find anything about genetic modification on is the zebra danio.

I think it would have only taken a little observation to work out the difference.

These fish have travelled by a lot of people and had plenty of opportunities to be questioned. As soon as there could have been ANY suspicions that the fish could be GE/GM there should have been inquiries made. The importer, the shops, the breeders, and all the people who have bought or even just seen these fish have had the opportunity to investigate. Surely the whole NZ tropical fish keeper population didn't ALL assume that these fish were ok? I guess someone must have asked otherwise there would still be at least 12 tanks full of these pink fish.

[alanmin4304]

My point was that importers pay a lot of money to maf to inspect the fish that are imorted. When I imported gold fish I bought $200 worth and the freight was about the same. In 6 weeks I had 7 inspections each time by different staff and two staff each time costing $140. When an importer pays good money I think they are entitled to have the inspections carried out by someone who knows what they are doing. The importer should also know what is allowed and what is not. Both contribute the only difference is that we pay maf.

[Caryl]

To reply to a previous question, yes, white cloud mountain minnows are now banned imports but you are allowed to keep and breed the ones we already have so make sure you do so as, once gone, they will not be able to be imported.

This is one of the reasons the FNZAS tries to encuorage people to breed their fish.

[cichlid7]

Where did this info come from? Is it fact or just something made up or heard second or third hand?

I Know the guy that got raided at 7am yesterday and when i was talking to him that is what he told me.

[BK]

This was in reply to a couple of post above but posted on the other thread.

"""""Any reasonable person could just look at the fish and the coloured offspring and know something was funky.""""

But the people who get paid to do this can't so we should????

I'm just saying that they made the mistake they should pay for it. If you haven't had to deal with them on a number of issues you really don't know what happens. Premits to import Sheep and goats for central CHCH. Where is there brain at. No problem with not having these in NZ due to GE but lets play with the same ball.

I again come back to the issue of importing birds why chickens and not parrots. Both can bring in problems but they only allow chicken ins. How is this fair.

"""""They are a bunch of normal people who have to do their job like the rest of us and make mistakes like the rest of us. """"""

Doesn't matter if you win or lose, yah right.

The next plane crash can be quite easly be dealt with by saying they did there best. Sure the people on the plane would be happy with that.

Free and Fair for all please

[jn]

If the fish were not the usual recognizable selves (ie: different colours) they should have been quarrantined on import pending further analysis or destroyed then.

Of course they had to destroy the fish, but they have a much harder (and more expensive) job on their hands as the fish have been spread across the country.

I definitely agree that the holes in the system really need to be plugged.

[Fluffypants]

My two cents....

I saw these fish in store in Feb this year and was reluctant to buy them as I thought they were dyed. Blame ultimately lies with MAF as they failed to check that they were not GM before allowing them in the country. It is acceptable that the fish were destroyed, as that is the law but the other fish should not have been touched. Personally, I do not agree with GE/GM or dyeing fish and would not purchase either.

Very disappointing to see some of the exchanges on the other thread.

[BK]

I think the no one on here wants something in NZ that shouldn't be, but to blame the guys that have them and try to gloss over the fact that MAF alowed these things is just wrong.

Now if you had these in your tank with fonts, Discus and small arow or what ever would you be keen to call MAF. Sure they would've had a better out come if they offered a reward for handing them in but again they have shown us that they are rigth and we can just go and get flushed.

[markoshark]

Just a question.

Did anyone report these to MAF other than me?

Or was the general consensus "see no evil hear no evil"?

That they slipped through the cracks is not really the problem, it is this - Why were they not reported sooner?

If we, as hobbyists want to get more & varied fish into NZ, why do we not coopearate with maf - IE, released Mollys, Guppies, and Swordtails into warmwater rivers. Why? - Rather than them looking at the way hobbyists have in the past dealt with problems, lets be a little more proactive - "Long, Funky, and What the" is a good example.

If we can prove that we are trustworthy, perhaps we can get cooler fish in the future?

[Freakyfish]

Why is everyone annoyed with MAF?

The problem here lies with the importers

They are the ones who deliberately broke the rules and imported the fish

Everyone who bought them should have known what is going to happen if they were caught with these fish

The importers are going to destroy the hobby for all you guys and still noone blames them

The fish were "accidentally imported"

How are they accidentally imported????

The Exporters knew they werent allowed to export them from Singapore

The Importer knew they were illegal but still tried to bring them through

Do we all blame the Police when someone gets caught with drugs that have been smuggled in because they werent caught doin it

Or do we blame the dealer and then the user

Everyone had a choice with buying the fish in the first place

Brad

[BK]

Mark the list will only ever get shorter not longer. No matter how much since it makes that is why a lot of people didn't say any thing, as they would rather not deal with these guys if they aren't listening to us. Did you have you tanks checked, hope you don't have any normal Danio's in there as they could decide to take these and you can't do any thing.

If they dealt with us fairly they may find that they get more help on going but "jack boots in the morning" doesn't make for good dealings.

Why is it always one way, when did MAF come to us and say that these aren't allowed but were going to start letting these in. Never. Takes two. Problems with both sides so why line up with MAF???? Do they not visit the shops why did they not notice or do they not know what they are looking at. At the end of the day they have been report in more than one area of NZ so they haven't gotten these out of the country and the people with the most responsibility for this is MAF as its there job to make sure these things don't come in not ours.

[Freakyfish]

Markoshark

I was one of the people who repeatedly had some posts deleted because of my concerns of these fish

People were worried about MAF finding out

Even though they were always going to know about it

Brad

[Caryl]

It was more the personal debates re GM and GE that were the reason the previous threads were removed, not specifically the subject matter since at that time there was argument as to whether they were actually GM or not.

[markoshark]

And if you were stupid enough to keep breeding these fish while KNOWING that they are a GM organisim, then you should be expecting "Jack Boots at 2am in the morning"

And Brad:

Yup. The thread that had the details of some of the members of this forum that were looking to buy these fish TO breed, or were breeding these fish has incidently been hidden.

As the owner of the fish was allowed to remove other non-danios from the affected tanks, would you say that MAF were reacting overly harshly? I'd consider that to be fairly considerate.

[BK]

Freaky how is the "Mum and Dad" fish keeps meant to Know when they have been checked by MAF. Do you blame the crew and passengers on the plane that crush after it was checked by the guy who fixxed/checked it. Or do you blame the guy who sent the wrong parts. It all comes back to the guy that fixxed/checked it made these fit. They past MAF's test's does this not make them ok untill MAF say's other wise, so untill yesterday MAF hadn't told any one that these weren't ok.

Both side please.

[BK]

Mark I talked to the guy and he told me that is what the let him do so other than my comment people would still be in the dark about what to expect. How can you work with MAF if they don't tell us any thing.

[Freakyfish]

Caryl

There was no doubt about the legality of these fish

The thread was deleted as to no arouse MAF suspicion

The majority of fishkeepers wouldnt have known whether these fish are illegal or not though this doesnt mean they are exempt from the law

There is no comparison between passengers and drug users or even fishkeepers

Glofish are illegally exported out of Singapore

If they arent on the import list in NZ then they are illegally imported too

Brad