RnB

some people do seem to prefer the dutch auction method.....

There is a huge desire when you put down 10k for a system to get exactly what you want regarding pump manufacture, skimmer type etc etc. And at that price you also often want a tank built into a certain space etc etc. It will find a buyer at the right price or PC will keep it.....

I thought this tank had been broken up and sold as components..... obviously not...

more fish on trademe, another hobiest going overseas, flame angel.... etc etc

actually i was thinking possibly co-op much like farmers used to to purchase farm supplies and process meat....... same concept but more tightly controlled. thinking you would have to go it alone is silly, if you setup I could introduce you to two or three people who have the right level of knowledge to help you get through the initial period...... There are some very knowledgeable but private people out there! re the trip to islands.... not a sailing trip but a purchasing trip to the islands could be considered tax deductable for a importer if used primarily to facilitate the future imports.... ie fly in spend a few days looking at importers and there modes of operation, perhaps some diving 8) as would an international trip to a US corals convention or reef trade show..... to be honest tho the us guys prob not want to know you, the NZ volumes would be too small and your NZ clients would prob be able to get a better deal on the web....

I bet its a lot harder in CHCH to buy direct from an importer...... but from memory the prices are often a little lower then AKL as well..... do they only sell there own imports or sell to each other as well?

I suspect the current wholesalers who sell direct still prefer to sell in bulk to shops rather then operate quassi retail from there basement. but they could still decide to cherry pick the market....... both reef and jetski are savvy biz operators tho... neither are charities. in christchurch how many of the shops are also importers?

ok now we are getting to the underlying truth of the matter.... all the real coin is made in retail! the profits are not shared with the importers... and the importers have to sell direct to try and subsidise their business and to sell the stock that is not cherry picked by the trade.... in being forced to do so they form relationships with your clients... and low and behold they start selling direct...... suply chain - CONTROL IT

I was and still are considering it... I have been a little busy racing and setting up a crusing yacht. I am planning to go up to the islands next year and have been working on getting an onboard dive compressor setup correctly etc and have not had a huge amount of spare time to setup marine fish import. I have never planned to try and break into the market and dominate it, rather import for myself and a small select group of clients. I have however done the budget for the site and all equipment, I have all the pumps and glass and plumbling pieces ready to go, its just time to build the site..... sure its cheaper to buy from a wholesaler but is it about the journey or the destination? I could just fly to fiji and go on a commercial dive boat cheaper then sailing up myself... but would i ever achieve the same satisfaction? For you guys however I do not understand it, its your business and your suppliers seem (from the undercurrent here) to be %6&*@(.Z@ you..... not controlling your supply chain is commercial suicide. I do not see why you could not import for your retail side AND sell on trademe with a 20-30% discount to retail via a different front company.... own the market both ways and which ever grows build it further.... mate, no offence but I can see why you work their rather then own it. You have so many options!

how many people are you talking about? 10%, 30% I suspect that hollywoods also say a lot of people ask questions then buy down the road, is it not the nature of the shopping process...... or are you saying that the wholesalers are selling directly to your clients? that would be easy to stop... just do not buy fish/coral off that particular wholesaler... or import yourselves..... I CANNOT believe that you are not capable of importing yourselfs.... hell you are "giving the newbies advice" do you not have the knowledge or is it a lack of capital?

which is probably why the shops do not introduce their clients to this site... are they scared they will meet the wholesalers here....????? or is it the negitive light many on here hold the shops in? again this has stopeed the effective formation of a marine club in AKL...... or people just do not give a s... and are interested only in their own pockets.... a conslusion i came to a while back. wasp - neither do the wholesalers, they just start from a lower cost base..... so is the answer, lets all continue to verbally support the shops on here while quietly collecting plastic bags of fish/corals from the back doorways of importers?

who is importing in rotorua? is this an expansion of the freshwater import biz that was for sale last year? I cannot see how this will make things worse, it will give the retailers more choice for stock thus we will have more choice..... if the retailers blacklist him he will sell indirect which will undermine them and we will have more choice at a lessor price......... either way we will have more choice...... which was why i started this thread, I thought that people may not want to pay $170 site unseen for a yellow tang, but they did and since have paid simmillar close to retail money for clowns, thus i am sure if steve/reef listed an atlantic blue tang you would trust that it was and bid accordingly..... you can always ask on trademe if you can see the item before bidding...... any online vendor will have to accuractely describe goods or risk losing future sales.... its a pretty important step in the future of the industry, if i was a wholesaler who was being blacklisted by retailers i would feel confident i could sell by trademe/email/web at prices about 20-30% less then retail and have a resonable demand from people.

I cam remember having this same thread conversation with pies about 24 months ago..... what has not changed still two major marine retails shops in AKL this thread still has an (in the businees) vs hobbiest theme to it.... lots of people thiunk they know what is best for everyone else..... there is still a lot of importer vs retailer politics in akl you can still get a bargin if you work discreetly via email etc so what has changed..... The internet has become an even more dominent force in the retail and distribution of product such as skimmers/calc reactors etc etc Individual hobbiests seem more willing to import their own kit now. There is a second AKL based importer and prices do seem to be a little lower then they used to be. Trademe has allowed the hobbiest a better vehicle to sell spare kit etc. There seems to be more not less people now entering marines, lower prices have not translated into less people in the hobby in fact the basic rules of economics mean this can never happen, less people = higher prices through decreased effeciency.... I reckon that i will be having this conversation again in 24 months and by then there will be open sales of marine fish on the web, prob not all by trademe as the fees kill the deal , but the wholesalers will continue to refine their businesses in their personal self interest.

ira - have you personally ever purchased internet mail order?

The first rule of Capitalism is that everyone works to optimise their own position, some will have short term views and some long. It is undeniable that capitalism tends to drive prices lower and forces people to be more efficient, sometimes this change is too much and a business cannot become efficient enough to make the profits that the owner needs. Of course the economics of marine trade in Auckland is distorted, there are only two main retail outlets..... its entirely possible that cartell pricing or buying could occur in such a small economic system. How could the shops increase effiency vs a internet based resellor.... easy they start importing themselves so they can get there stock at the SAME COST BASE as the wholesaler... to hard easy they do a joint venture deal with the wholesaler so they dont have to import and the wholesaler does not have to start a retail outlet.... or we could see outright open price based warfare...... such as we see between hill and stewart, bond and bond etc etc..... remember the time when you used to have a familly business selling TV's and fridges just down the road...... Reef has said for a long time that its a hard business, time consuming and you may end up becoming a fish geek..... being a free society maybe others WANT to enter such a low margin business opportunity because they seek the same non financial gratification that he does....... I do understand the concept that a retail shop is in the best interest of the newbie by helping select the best products etc etc, in reality I cannot hand on heart believe that this is the case.... I see crap little skimmers sold to newbies with promises of performance they can never deliver. I also see newbies that cannot afford to enter the hobby decide to start with crap equipment... hell this is trying to keep an animal alive, the road is littered with aquaculture venutres where millions was invested and they could not cut it!!!! I do not believe that the model that works for fresh water works for marines, i believe that marines need more personal help and assistance, i believe this logically should come from clubs rather then retail shops.... whay is it then that people are so non interested in turning up to a club meeting to discuss marines, but flock to a discount frag swap at a wholesalers house???? Do wholesaler really offer the assistance and advice that a shop cannot, how do they manage to do this in a cost effective manner if a shop cannot...... or are we just so price focused we want that cheap frag! Trademe is changing the way many NZ importers do business its up to the individual tank owners to decide who to support.... As to blaming this forum bah ahahahahahahahahah, the people here have always looked for a bargin, hell the wholesalers even used to seek them, I used to recieve a monthly newsletter from an importer for ages! what i truely find so interesting is how high the prices obtained on trademe have been lately....... I suspect that once the market gets a bit more saturated then people will stop bidding aginst each other, knowing that the wholesaller has many more fish on there list and in fact the wholesaler would rather sell direct via email or a website.... enough rambling - i did not start this thread to get anyone banned again - lets keep it that way.....

why would you not sell them via trademe so as to maximise your value, unless it was as a favour for someone who has helped you in the past......

holy cow - hey pet planet, maybe you should sell livestock via the internet as well as dry goods.... seems to be quite profitable, as a few of us suggested some time ago.... http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=79208184 thats a great result for the breeder steve.

Guys, you may be interested in this site as its got some way cool photos on it and many of you love diving/reefs etc. great resource for anyone looking to buy a camera that can be used underwater as well....... some of these guys are luckly enough to do this for a living. http://www.wetpixel.com here are some examples I am in the market myself for a decent camera and housing.... I am thinking of getting a D70 second hand, what cameras do you guys use to take pictures and why? these sites stress the importance of apature and expsoure control in your choice of camera and it seems that the point and shoot cameras struggle as you add strobes etc underwater.... I have also just started going to the auckland underwater photograhy club meetings (next meeting now jan) if anyone here is interested PM me and I will pass on details. There are some VERY experienced underwater photographers at these meetings......... enjoy RnB

count yourself lucky if you need a resource consent its $880 just to apply! I hate ACC and wish nicky harger would write a book on hubbard..... ACC's days are numbered now it obvious to everyone that auckland needs only one regional council!

seems a popular thread tho.... so guys are you trying to say that fish that have been in a persons tank for a year should sell at a premium to a recent import shop fish?

Steve, i virtually gave that yellow tang to you the manderin getting a good price as well People are SO PRICE sensitive as they have no real alternatives.... a slight discount gets so much response. its good news for anyone who is thinking of ripping down a tank....

great auction result, proves that you can sell livestock on trademe.

I have many options for the sump as its under the house, i have a 500L acrylic that will become free soon and too 400L ish glass tanks, I need to be able to have the eductors/perductors sp? about 3-4 inches below the surface level, so need a large sump to handle when the return pump goes off line, I expect that about 100L will drainb to sump when this occurs, thats about 6inch deeper on the acrylic and its about 24 inches high...... overflow will be approx 680ml long, I expect that the water level will be at least an inch higher then the no flow state of the overflow... but will need to experiment to confirm this. I will be starting a thread soon but need to get hold of digital camera.....

1900 us gal its the main return pump from sump to the tank.... not that I take that 100% have always found pumps a little over stated.... I was concered that the fitting I was planning that returns water to the sump from the overflow was too small.... I am happy to have two returns of 50mm if needed, the plan is for barbe bottom and very high flow throught the main display back towards the skimmer.... thats 2L per second by my calcs... I will have tees on the return pump so I can vent to sump/frag tank as required.... going to clamp the pump this week to see how much its going to cost to run.... anyone in nz use the eductors or perductors sp?

I have a little giant that I want to run and the stated flow at 10ft head is 1900 us gal per hour, will go for the 50mm internal diameter.......