David R

I probably wouldn't risk it. A 60cm tank won't reach all the way across so the weight won't be spread evenly on the vertical supports and the wood in the middle will probably bow.

Well unless "A. rubescens" has been described and accepted as a new species that name is as nonsensical as any common name. Hybrids or man-made varieties from line breeding etc do not get a proper Latinised species name. If it is a line-bred strain of A. maleri, then the correct name would be Alulonocara maleri Rubens or A. maleri Peter Rubens, or what ever the person giving that variety a name would like to call it, so long as it is not Latinised and used instead of a species name. Regardless of how much line breeding or inbreeding has taken place and regardless of how far removed from its natural form the fish is, if there has been no hybridising the fish is still Alulonocara maleri. If it were a hybrid it should be called Alulonocara 'Rubens' or A. 'Peter Rubin'.

It seems to me that half the problem here is caused by people not using proper Latin nomenclature and trying to abbreviate it to the point where its as useless as common names. I'm not an authority on African cichlids so I'm not sure if "Reubans" "Firebirds" "Jacobs" etc are actually referring to species, subspecies, line-bred and named varieties or what! For the sake of everybody (and my sanity) here's what people should be doing: For a scientifically described naturally occurring species (and subspecies); Genus species subspecies. Capital letter for the Genus, lower case for species and subspecies. Genus can be abbreviated to G. if it is being repeated. For a named (line bred) variety or type-locality etc; Genus species Firebird. The name given to the variety must not be Latin-ised and receives a capital letter. For a named hybrid between two species of the same Genus: Genus 'Firebird'. Again, the given name must not be Latin-ised, receives capital letters, is written in single quotation marks and can only be two words long. An inter-generic hybrid receives a genus name comprised of the first half of one parent and the second half of the other (can't remember weather mother or father comes first). If people actually stuck to this perhaps the issue wouldn't be so confusing. And for the sake of my curiosity could Andrew or Ryan clear up what exactly a "firebird" "reubans" and "jacobs" should be??

I've got an L27 'Tapajos', L27 dull eye, and L14 sunshine/goldie growing out in the 3' and 4', but they're only 4-7cm and still too small to risk going in with the big ornate.

LOL!! I'll bring some down for you in March for SIMM.

My submissive male didn't, so I'll let you know if he develops one now that he's the only one in the 4' tank. From what I've read the hump is fluid filled, so I imagine it could change quite rapidly. In the close up pic you can actually see the line of the forehead and the hump looks slightly translucent!

Hopefully I'll be able to send you some fry some time in the not-too-distant future!

Just snapped a few pics of these guys so I thought I'd share. They're in a 3'x18"x18" tank with some sterbai corys, a few plecs and 25 golden xray tetras. There's 5 now, but I'm going to remove the sumbissive male as he's getting picked on by the alpha. I've dropped the temp down to 24C now that the clown loaches are in my 4', and I'll give them a cooler winter to hopefully trigger some lovin! Pics are mostly of the alpha male and [hopefully] his mrs. And back in April when I got them:

I thought this thread was about an electric blue jack dempsey until I saw the pic. :-? Sorry I can't really help with the problem, I just though I'd take the oppertunity to point out why people should learn and use the Latin names of their fish.

I used pumice for the sumberged media in my wet/dry, and bioballs for the above water stuff as I couldn't find anything like the 'pot scrubbers' the yanks rave about.

HFF Mt Roskill had a couple a week or so ago.

^ rubbish. I think anyone can and should try to identify the fish they are keeping, regardless of what they have been sold them as. I know it is a lot harder with rift lake cichlids as a lot of the time you are dealing with Spp. and type localities, and the fact that a lot of people aren't 100% on how the Latin nomenclature works just adds to the confusion. (I should really write a short article on it, given that I deal with it every day and my boss is very knowledgeable about it). IMO, if in doubt, be honest. If you're not sure that they are Aulonocara sp Rubens Firebird then you could always sell them as "Aulonocara Sp." or "A. Sp. (possibly Rubens Firebird?)" just to be on the safe side. That is certainly better than guessing/hoping/assuming the name is correct.

Phil, I work in the plant-equivelant of a specialist fish importer/breeder, so I know all too well what you're trying to say. We're on the brink of bankruptcy because there aren't enough people willing to pay money for quality, correctly identified and well grown plants. My comments were not aimed at the importers and specialist stores (who incidentally, I encourage anyone to support) but at the small-time and even accidental breeders. People who aren't relying on it to put food on the table, yet try to sell every last fry produced, and just breed from any two random fish bought from the fish shop, which are probably brother and sister. If you're going to breed fish as a hobby then your focus should be on quality not quantity and dollars.

That would be the goldfish bowl.

Flowerhorns are a mix of a trimac and red terror IIRC, parrots are part severum though so maybe thats what you're thinking of? IMO Thats is the difference between a fish-haver and fish-keeper. A fish-haver would take someones word for it, a fish-keeper would do the research and learn for themselves. With the internet there is hardly any excuse for not knowing stuff, there's plenty of knowledgeable people willing to help people learn and there is more information than you could cram into a hundred books available at your fingertips. IMO its starts with us, the hobbyists. When people still call G. altifrons "surinamensis" just because thats what the shops call it and thats what everyone knows it as then we are really doing ourselves a disservice.

Yeah thats what I was getting at Simian. Although I am concerned of where the hobby is going with peoples attitudes towards breeding and selling to try to make a buck. Its more than just names too, selling every last fry with no regards to 'natural selection', inbreeding, breeding from low quality stock etc. I'm sure there will always be people who put producing the highest quality correctly named stock above quantity, and hopefully there's enough genuine hobbyists (not just fish-havers) willing to pay good money for these good fish.

Thanks christ I'm only really interested in new world cichlids... :-?

Yeah, you could keep most things in a 4' tank, a group of silver aro's would go nicely in a 4' long tank, if it was 8' wide... :lol:

- Where do people usually source plumbing equipment? Plumbing World, Placemakers only sell 15mm pressure pipe in 6 metre lengths. - Where do people get those white ball valvues? What for? - Glue the connections or get "quick" snap together connections? I just use 15mm pressure pipe glued together for the return, and 40mm (I think) waste pushed together for the overflow. - Transporting a 6 footer? Trailer or van? Van would be much better, but do-able on a trailer.

Could be asking for trouble with that big a size difference. Then again it may be fine as the bigger one won't see them as a threat. Give it a go but be ready to separate them. *edit* and yeah, that is a short-term arrangement, tank is too small for more than one oscar.

10mm is fine. Build the stand from 4x2 and either use ply screwed to it or add some diagonal braces. How tall does the stand need to be? Size of the drain holes would depend on the planned flow.

I bought it as a "Clown Pleco" years ago. Phoenix, that is exactly why common names are rubbish and more people should use Latin names, and in this case L numbers. [yes I know the problem starts with the suppliers] And yeah they are A. heckelii, and they get more attractive every single day. The little ones in the LFS look boring in comparison, with their colourful fins just hinting at their potential. They haven't been available for a while, so people should be snapping them up, but I guess they don't realise what they grow into. I wish I could take better photos of them!!

I'll post pics of the clowns once they settle down after the rearrange and start being a bit more active. Thanks Bjorn and Dixon, L205 it is! Are they worth anything? :lol:

Henward, some people believe the "asian arowana" is four different species (aureus, S. formosus S. legendrei, and S. macrocephalus), some say it is just different colour varieties of the same species (S. formosus). Either way, they are all considered to be an 'endangered species' and are all on the CITES Appendix 1, although the green is the most common variety. Have a read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scleropages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scleropages_formosus

I'll say the same thing I said last time someone asked about "leopard fish"... Leopard danio? Leopard ctenopoma? Leopard pleco? Leopard grouper? Leopard shark? What the heck is a "leopard fish"?