Simian

We are coming from the same place here David, I am doing my best to preserve the rarer fish in NZ & would like to get yours and others input on how you would modify the breeding scheme to achieve the goals stated in this thread. As stated my idea is to add a second tier to the scheme which would offer some kind of reward or recognition or endorsement to those breeders who meet a set standard. The scheme as it stands IMO should not be scrapped, the data it gathers is valuable and at least is a good starting point. If I can get some good feedback and commitment from the interested parties, I will create an official proposal and present it at the next exec meeting.

As a rebuttal to Davids comment, yes to you it may be trivial but not everyone gets off on the same thing so lets put that "gold star" argument aside it is solely a matter of personal preference and is entirely an aside from the real issue. Encouraging people to breed and the FNZAS breeding scheme is hardly the evil you are claiming David, the number of registered breedings is a fly spot compared with the actual number of accidental breedings that happen each year, most of which are from people who are not a member of a club or even really have a clue about how they achieved it, they are then put on trademe. The breeding scheme while it is very "simplistic" is a form of review, surely some system is better than no system at all. If for instance I get asked to confirm a breeding, I can see the quality of the set-up, and state of the fry etc, this is the time to teach that person a little more about what makes a good fish/breeder/set-up etc. How can this be irresponsible? if the person is a member of my club and is dumping poor quality fish onto the market in , I will be having a quiet sit down and try and put them straight. Without some kind of regulation any idiot with some randy fish can cause the issues in regard to over supply poor quality etc. I still maintain that an official way of recognising a breeder who is producing quality fish and acting ethically can only do good for the hobby. I personally am aiming to breed as many different fish as I can in part to be able to say I have but also to learn from the experience, do I dump the fish on the market? no I sell to LFS and club members only. I sell some of the fish I breed, why? so I can regain some of the cash I pour into the hobby and into the club, I will never get back what I put in but at least if I dont have to tap into my family's savings to secure some rare fish with a view to breeding it, thats great and it keeps the wife off my back. The true measure of how good a breeder is, is via a show which we hold infrequently at best. Kapi Mana was planning to hold a National show next year, but are considering pulling out because of the perception that they wont get enough entries now Paul Billany is winding down his operation. I'd llike to see them proven wrong. If you are serious about the quality of fish then support the shows and the local clubs, make them successful and then people can really see what a "proper" specimen of a species looks like.

A very relevant point David and something I have been mulling over in the last wee while, I partake actively in the scheme, its a good way to keep techniques current, and a good way to keep track of who's doing what. I have to agree just because you have 50 breeds next to your name doesn't make you a good breeder. But I see nothing wrong with the "gold star" as you put it, if it makes you feel good who cares, we all get our "feel good" stuff in different ways. My thoughts have been moving towards a second tier of the scheme for "serious" breeders. A problem that amateur enthusiast breeders have is moving fish on at a fair price in order to continue to upgrade their set-up and stock quality/variety. My proposal would be a FNZAS master breeder certification/endorsement, which would factor in quality, the set-up and health of the fish. Along with this the use of a simple QA/traceability system and a code of conduct. I may be a bit hopeful but IMO this would add value and desirability to the fish for those who don't want to just "have a play", it would also encourage the showing of fish as stock descended from winning fish (hence the requirement for traceability) would carry more value perceived or otherwise. It seems to work for dogs and cats, cows and sheep etc, why not fish? Marketing 101 says you meed to have a point of difference for your product, most people try for price, research shows only 17% of people shop on price alone.

Dunno about Zebs, I believe we should be able to import them, dont have allowed list on hand atm but we have them documented on the FNZAS breeding scheme. If it comes down to it a flight to the states and 10k would sort out that whole issue IMO. Back to the topic at hand, the biggest issue I have as a breeder is getting rid of my fish! Its so jolly hard to get a solid market, 3 months ago I couldnt give away Kribs, now I'm being asked by LFS if I have any they are buying some in! I find it frustrating, I sell to Club members and LFS but still end up with a glut in my tanks, local fish should be easy to sell locally, they are used to the water, will have less stress on transit, smaller carbon footprint, be in better condition etc etc but they aren't. Its a Giant pain in the backside I wish I could remove. :evil:

That was what I meant Ira sorry should have used Hyper, not hypo

Do the females have bristles?

28 deg is fine but remember that their system is geared to water temp, they go hypo and wont live as long.

At least you have a good excuse Wok, it was a good day. Stink about the car dude

Well done mate. Once they stop looking like a tadpole and loose their egg sack, microworms as suggested, its a piece of cake from here slosh fresh water in from main tank 2x day to keep water in the small container fresh. Too easy

Welcome aboard

ooooo new tank Duncan? what this time?

They are over 30 days now Helen I need to get some other breeding forms signed too, what days you workin this week? that way I can get them to Wok this weekend at the exec meeting. 8) O

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

It will be a busy weekend, Exec meeting on Saturday and tank crawl on Sunday. I'll do my best to get a leave pass, may be a stretch though :roll:

Platies Guppies Swords Kribs GBA's common BN Red Whips L010a Leopard Danios Blue Rams Corydoras Caudimaculatus Corydoras Triliniatus Homosapien's -didnt get 10 only have 2 but they are so expensive to feed I dont think I'll ever get them as a registerd breeding

They will breed again, its a great experience to watch them look after the babies so even if they get eaten she will soon have more kribs than she can deal with.

Get hold of Purplecatfish if you want sewellia lineloata he is successfully breeding them in Auckland. Pete is also the president of Auckland fish keepers so pretty easy to track down. I too love these little guys, one day ...one day

It can and has been done with the tank intact, but not an easy thing, I tried and got fed up and just disassembled the jolly thing.

From what I can gather true neon tetra diseae is more or less non existant in NZ these days. False NT disease is not, I have had fish with FNTD and it doesnt look like that, it starts out as a whitish necrotic patch on the back of teh fish that quickly spreads. I have successfully treated a school with FNTD with a regime of white spot cure and formalin treatments, a bit hard on any bottom dwellers so beware. I dont take any chances with sickly small fish, personally for a $2 fish its not worth the risk of infecting others or the cost of meds it would take to possibly save it. HTH Owen

Dont forget the Goldfish bowl in Heaphy Tce Hamilton, Clifs a nice chap and has lowest margin around.

Yep, we will sort out carpools once we meet at my place. Owen see you at 10.00am

Nice one

Hmmm choccy cake

Hi All Date: 01 November 2009 Meet at my Place 7 Forth Crescent Glenview by 10.00 am, our first stop will be at 10.15 so stragglers will have to catch up. (spare time schedule and maps will be in the mail box) We currently have about 12 stops and about 18 tanks to cover so we will need to start on time, no time for morning or afternoon tea I am afraid, unless someone pulls out, so bring a snack and a drink for the road. We have tanks entered in the following categories: Planted Unfurnished (unplanted, don’t ask me why its called that) Nano (under 60l) Marine Cold water Pond It looks as though we will have some out of town visitors and at their request will be doing a visit to World of Water as part of the day. We will finish the crawl at my place with an Auction and a barbecue tea and drinkies (so carpool from home if you can) It will be BYO drinks for the BBQ so pack a chilly bin (there is a New World supermarket one block from my place in case you forget). We will aim to have tea finished by 6.00pm for those people who have to travel and I will pull the pin about 8.00pm for those who want to stay on. The BBQ sausages and bread spuds etc will be supplied by the club so if members can bring a small salad, coleslaw or some nibbles etc that would be appreciated. The Auction will run along these lines: Fish, Plants, spare equipment, books, tanks etc are all fair game so dig out your old stuff you don’t want anymore Any livestock can be floated at my place during the day so in bags is a good idea. A fee of the lesser of 5% or $5 will be taken by the club to cover some costs of the BBQ Reserves can be set but must be clearly marked for the auctioneer to see. I have loads of 40hr heat packs available at a really low price of $2.50 each with 50c from each going to the club to help cover costs Bring spare plastic bags rubber bands etc as I never have enough Kind regards Owen Lingard