Fish Frenzy Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Hello everyone, I noticed a few days ago my gold barbs have red patches on their body. I have 3 barbs, 1 is going quite pale, not as healthy looking and it's fins are qoing a bit white/not much fins left, it has red gills. the other 2 are very lively but have very red patches under stomach and tail, etc. They were breeding yesterday though... very weird!?? I went to Hollywood fish farm again after the melafix treatment did not work, they said it was most likely an internal infection/bacteria and that I should use something stronger such as furan 2. But, they did say that if not used correctly this could also kill all my fish!!! Please help, does anyone have an idea of how I should do the treatment on my 200L? They said to go to the website and read the more detailed instructions than on the package, which I will definitely do, but would like some advice from experienced people who have used this treatment before... I have 13 neon tetra, 5 corys, 1 dwarf gourami, 1 zebra danio, and 3 platys. The guy said it would be best to treat the whole tank, the other fish have no symptoms yet but just in case they may be infected, the furan could do them good... or kill them...!! please help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Furan, like all meds does have to be used as prescribed. Its not going to hurt your other fish but plants don't like it. If you have a quarantine tank use that instead. Just treat the recommended dose on the packet. Furan is a carcinogen meaning its possibly cancer causing so try to keep it off your own skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I would also put affected fish in a small tank say 20L and do furan treatment in there. I you were to treat a full 200L tank it would take quite a lot of furan 2 and would therefore be quite expensive.. You could also euthanise the sick fish and buy new ones for the money that the furan 2 would have cost you. Sounds a bit cold hearted but if melafix didn't work and it is indeed an internal infection then nursing your fish back to health with furan 2 seems like a long shot anyway. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Frenzy Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Hello guys, Yes I have a small 20L that I could use. The guy there said that I should however treat the whole tank? Will just treat the barbs then. Do you think it is possible that the other fish would be contaminated though? Also, yes my mum said I should have just euthanzied the fish and just bought the same ones, but I thought (and the seller told me) that I should treat the whole tank incase the other fish were sick too. I really don't know what to do... I think I will move the barbs to the bare 20L. How should I set it up? Heater, filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Just treat the sick fish - just because some are sick it doesn't mean the others will catch it as you don't know what you are dealing with. Put a heater in, I wouldn't worry about a filter if you have an airline and air pump otherwise my suggestion would be to use the filter with no sponges in it. Make sure there is no carbon as that removes the medication. Then follow the instructions, do the water changes as it says and complete the full course of treatment. For the medications day 1 means today, day 3 means tuesday etc etc. Good luck, let us know how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Frenzy Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 ok thanks loads... you guys are very helpful I called hollywood fish farm today after not being able to find the more detailed insructions on using furan 2 on the API website... a very kind aldy gave me the exact dose I should use and how. Apparently, this it how I should do the treatment: Day 1, (e.g 4pm) - 1/4 tsp of furan 2 for 20L. Day 2, 4pm - another 1/4 tsp. Day 3, same time, 25% water change then another 1/4 tsp. Day 4, same time, another 1/4 tsp = last dose. Advised to do a 25%-50% water change after this and to repeat medication process after 1 week if fish are not any better. The lady said that presonally she would treat the whole 200L that the sick fish were in?? Any advice on that? Will be doing a 30% water change today, see if that helps a little and will start the medication next week. Thanks again guys, will keep updated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexyay Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 It /totally/ depends on what it is as to whether you have to treat the whole tank. If it's something like columnaris and is spreading, then you want to treat the tank. If it's a single incident, then you treat the affected fish. One option would be to move them all into a 38L (which is what 1 packet treats for 1 day, so or eg 76L and 2 packets/day) and then sterilize everything else in the 200L - plants in a dip of some kind (bleach, KMnO4 etc), and same with the rest of the equipment and tank. That's assuming that it's a disease that's spreading. Furan 2 usually comes in a box with 10 packets - 4 packets are 1 total course, and it's 1 packet/38L. Treat as HFF have instructed (grr) HFF seem to be selling them separately in different packaging which I'm very unimpressed with :facepalm: but there isn't much Furan 2 left to buy in the country any more (it'll soon no longer be for sale, most stores have run out of it). It's still occasionally available on TM based on what's left (and there's one who's imported some without registration - they'll probably continue to do so until MPI call them out on it and seize future imports). Have you tested your water? Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Frenzy Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 hello, yes I bought it from HFF I got 2 small packets, tehy said the furan 2 does not come in boxes anymore. Trademe still has the 10 packet box for sale thoguh. I bought each packet for $25.90. Sounded really expensive to me and after checking on trademe I think I got majorly ripped off as a box of 10 sachets is $22.75 !!! I think I will have to contact HFF about that.... nirtite is 0ppm ammonia 0ppm don't know about nitrate though... PH 6:5 all the fish look healthy except the gold barbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexyay Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 hello, yes I bought it from HFF I got 2 small packets, tehy said the furan 2 does not come in boxes anymore. Trademe still has the 10 packet box for sale thoguh. I bought each packet for $25.90. Sounded really expensive to me and after checking on trademe I think I got majorly ripped off as a box of 10 sachets is $22.75 !!! I think I will have to contact HFF about that.... nirtite is 0ppm ammonia 0ppm don't know about nitrate though... PH 6:5 all the fish look healthy except the gold barbs The 10 sachets usually cost about $30-$36, the person with them cheap on TM is technically not getting them in legally and may stop selling them at any moment (depending on whether they get caught on import), so they are cheaper than what they would technically cost. Furan 2 doesn't come in boxes as it doesn't come in to NZ any more. What HFF have done (to my knowledge) is take the medication out of the remaining boxes and portion it out into single courses (I think, assuming 1 packet does 4 days course?) - technically I do not think this is legal, and yes they are charging for the single course rather than the typical packets they have taken them from. I wouldn't know whether they're getting the Furan 2 from otherwise other than the possible remaining boxes (as they haven't registered it, there's a whole complicated process on legally importing and selling certain medications including Furan 2 and other antibiotics). Hmm, the Nitrate is important but only if it's over 40ppm (usually it would sit under this). Red gills can mean ammonia poisoning but it looks like your ammonia is fine. Fins rotting usually means bacterial so I think ABs are your best option. I'd quickly look into both Tuberculosis (don't think it would be this) and Neon Tetra Disease (can affect some fish other than neons) just to double check (neither of these can be treated), otherwise Ulcers may be a possibility. But it looks like it's probably bacterial (Columnaris is a common bacterial disease). If it's only affecting the one species and you're sure it isn't spreading you likely only need to treat the affected fish/species. I'd probably do some good sized WCs on the main tank just to ensure water quality is good and the fish can be in healthy conditions for good healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Frenzy Posted October 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Hello, thanks alexyay Will treat the three barbs in separate tank and make sure the 200L is given a good clean. Also - I'd love it if you could tell me a bit about your 140L community tanks/ what fish you have in those tanks. Will be getting some new fish for my 200L and wanted some ideas for when the brabs are healed up. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Frenzy Posted October 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 omg I have started first dose... and suddenly thought: do I take out the carbon???? I know many people say when treating a tank you must take out carbon or else it could remove the medication in the tank... is this the case when using furan 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 There is no point in treating fish unless you know what the problem is. Once you know you should treat with the smallest amount of the least toxic treatment that will do the job. If you are dealing with an infection then you should treat the tank as the fish are likely to become re infected if you put them back after treating in a separate tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Frenzy Posted October 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 hello, yea sorry I already tried melafix it didn't work and since a couple of my fish died instantly in a very short time, HFF recommended using furan 2. I know the problem is internal bacterial infection. Thanks for your post though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexyay Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Yes you want to remove the carbon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I am very angry with the Hollywood Fish Farm staff in Albany for exposing me to harm when they advised me to use Furan 2 to treat my orandas and fancy tailed goldfish that were in a 300L pond when everything else they recommended was slow to work on a bacterial infection. I had never heard of this product before so asked before using it if it was safe to use and was it ok if it got on my skin as I would often daily pluck out by hand any leaves that had blown into the pond - they replied yes it's fine its a common treatment and they use it all the time. The cheap little plastic zip lock packets I bought had no symbols regarding what type of hazard rating furan 2 had and no safe handling information only a sticky label with the instructions on how to treat and how much to use. I had no idea how toxic to people this product was and HFF treated its use so lightly that it gave me no cause for concern or the need to google it. Within a day of using it I noticed the skin on my arm that had been submerged in the pond was quite red even though I had washed my skin well straight after clearing the pond of leaves after the 3rd day of this I had developed a couple of small swollen lumps on the inside of my arm that would itch and had been feeling mildly nauseous for no explanation this is when I decided to google furan 2 - what I learned was that its compounds are up there with Dioxin in regards to human toxicity, liver damage etc and that strict usage (hazard) quidelines when treating fish and handling this product should be followed and listed on buyers packaging. As I stated the packets I bought had nothing of this on them except for the dosing and treatment schedule and the staff at HFF when I had asked about it prior to use were very blase about the use of this product and treated it like it was a harmless fish remedy. Needless to say I stopped using it straight away and rang HFF and the New Plymouth importers that they had gotten this product from to express my anger and concern over the product and the potential for harm that users are exposing themselves to unwittingly (as packaging had no handling/safety labelling or informed staff selling it). It has been over a month since I used furan 2 but my arms up to my elbows and hands are very dry and still peeling - no doubt due to furan 2 causing skin corrosion as it breaks down human DNA. I no longer have any fish to worry about because within a few days of using the furan 2 they worsened rapidly and died. I caution anyone using this product (are those fish worth the risk) to find a human safe alternative. I wish NZ was more like the US as far as labelling laws go to protect the public from cowboy importers and retailers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I am very angry with the Hollywood Fish Farm staff in Albany for exposing me to harm when they advised me to use Furan 2 to treat my orandas and fancy tailed goldfish that were in a 300L pond when everything else they recommended was slow to work on a bacterial infection. I had never heard of this product before so asked before using it if it was safe to use and was it ok if it got on my skin as I would often daily pluck out by hand any leaves that had blown into the pond - they replied yes it's fine its a common treatment and they use it all the time. The cheap little plastic zip lock packets I bought had no symbols regarding what type of hazard rating furan 2 had and no safe handling information only a sticky label with the instructions on how to treat and how much to use. I had no idea how toxic to people this product was and HFF treated its use so lightly that it gave me no cause for concern or the need to google it. Within a day of using it I noticed the skin on my arm that had been submerged in the pond was quite red even though I had washed my skin well straight after clearing the pond of leaves after the 3rd day of this I had developed a couple of small swollen lumps on the inside of my arm that would itch and had been feeling mildly nauseous for no explanation this is when I decided to google furan 2 - what I learned was that its compounds are up there with Dioxin in regards to human toxicity, liver damage etc and that strict usage (hazard) quidelines when treating fish and handling this product should be followed and listed on buyers packaging. As I stated the packets I bought had nothing of this on them except for the dosing and treatment schedule and the staff at HFF when I had asked about it prior to use were very blase about the use of this product and treated it like it was a harmless fish remedy. Needless to say I stopped using it straight away and rang HFF and the New Plymouth importers that they had gotten this product from to express my anger and concern over the product and the potential for harm that users are exposing themselves to unwittingly (as packaging had no handling/safety labelling or informed staff selling it). It has been over a month since I used furan 2 but my arms up to my elbows and hands are very dry and still peeling - no doubt due to furan 2 causing skin corrosion as it breaks down human DNA. I no longer have any fish to worry about because within a few days of using the furan 2 they worsened rapidly and died. I caution anyone using this product (are those fish worth the risk) to find a human safe alternative. I wish NZ was more like the US as far as labelling laws go to protect the public from cowboy importers and retailers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanityChelle Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 This is what the Furan 2 packets should look like - And what they're imported as. A box with 10 seal foiled powder packets inside. On the back is Directions for use, a Diagnostic Chart, Lot # and Expirey date, and a warning stating For aquarium use only. Not for human consumptions. Avoid contact with skin and eyes. May cause irritation. WARNING: This product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer. HUMAN WARNING: Carcinogensis: Nitrofurazone, an active ingredient in Furan-2, has been known to produce mammary tumors on rats and ovarian tumors on mice. Some people may be hypersensitive to this product. Either wear gloves when dosing or wash hands afterwards. I'm personally using it at the moment to treat a fighter with a wound in a 30L tank, and though he's making a great recovery, I have been very careful to avoid putting my hand in the water, or washing my hands heaps afterwards. If the packet did not look like the above, then there's some serious issues happening here. The plastic bags with a sticker make it sound like the packets are being broken up in to smaller amounts to sell more (Furan 2 is currently being banned from importing, so there's limited stock around). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 It would appear that it needs to be accompanied with an MSDS http://www.epa.govt.nz/Publications/Tra ... 5-2004.pdf Classes 3, 4 and 5 dangerous goods Substance CAS Number UN Number Hazard Classification(s) Furan 110-00-9 2389 3.1A, 6.1A, 6.3A, 6.6B, 6.7B, 6.9A, 8.3A, 9.1C, 9.3C Furan, tetrahydro- 109-99-9 2056 3.1B, 6.1D, 6.3A, 6.4A, 6.7B, 6.9B,9.3C Furan, tetrahydro-2-methyl- 96-47-9 2536 3.1B, 6.1E, 6.4A, 9.1C http://www.apifishcare.com/pdf/70_Furan ... 968_AM.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Would be interesting to hear Hollywoods Albany's take on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 And yet, all the ingredients are used in human medication. From your description the only possible use for it would be murdering babies. I think you're overreacting and you had an unusual sensitivity to it. Allergic reaction to any of the ingredients is rare but not unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 And yet, all the ingredients are used in human medication. From your description the only possible use for it would be murdering babies. I think you're overreacting and you had an unusual sensitivity to it. Allergic reaction to any of the ingredients is rare but not unknown. I agree. What did your doctor say about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexyay Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 And yet, all the ingredients are used in human medication. From your description the only possible use for it would be murdering babies. I think you're overreacting and you had an unusual sensitivity to it. Allergic reaction to any of the ingredients is rare but not unknown. It is a GHS category 2 Irritant, which should be on the packaging (even if simply labelled as "irritant") - the packaging says to wear gloves and avoid skin contact. I personally would be incredibly upset if I was given different packaging without this information and developed a reaction. HFF's new packaging has removed all warnings which personally upsets me and I'm unsure as to whether it's legal for them to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Furan2 out of stock now and won't be back in any time soon. If anyone needs it you will have to pay for a vets visit and a script. That will make it worth more than most of the fish for sale in NZ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discusguru Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I agree. What did your doctor say about it? I agree too. It could be something in the pond water that causes the allergic reaction. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanityChelle Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Furan2 out of stock now and won't be back in any time soon. If anyone needs it you will have to pay for a vets visit and a script. That will make it worth more than most of the fish for sale in NZ! There's still some on Trademe, and AquariumsuppliesNZ is still selling it for about $22ish. I grabbed some more about two days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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