Struggling to water log a piece of Spider Wood root...

[darcy]

Hi guys,

Has anyone had experience trying to water log pieces of Spider Wood root? I picked mine up from Hollywood FF and after a few days it's showing no sign of any change after full weighted submersion (in a 60L plastic bin). Does boiling it actually speed up this process? I'm wondering about hiring a 30L catering stock pot for about $15 and putting it on the boil for a whole day... Curious if this actually speeds up the process though. Because the pieces are quite large, putting them in the tank and then taking up even more space with large weights of some kind isn't really feasible. Equally, I won't be able to fit the entire piece in the stock pot, but I could fit the vast majority of hte piece which is probably enough.

Thanks

D.

[Godly3vil]

I've had bits of driftwood that have taken months to become water logged, boiling it may help but I wouldn't think by much, it will help remove any tannins contained in the wood though.

[darcy]

I've had bits of driftwood that have taken months to become water logged, boiling it may help but I wouldn't think by much, it will help remove any tannins contained in the wood though.

Given the number of complete amateurs (although i'm not far from that either) purchasing from somewhere like HFF I'm a little surprised they don't stock a denser wood that has less difficulty in becoming water logged... I guess the other option is a water filled vacuum chamber... Anyone got one of those lying around in the auckland area?

Still curious to know about the boiling method... wondering if it's worth the effort.

[Dr A]

When I set up my last tank you couldn't get any of the stuff (spider wood).

Anyway I used the regular old wood they had (Mopane?). I boiled it for hours on end and apart from making a stink it didn't effect how waterlogged the wood was at all, which makes sense when you think about it (heat excites molecules, it's not going to A) soften or melt the wood or B) excite the water so much that it pushes it's way into the wood).

FWIW my tank still leaches tannin's like crazy what seems like a year later.

My suggestion would be to drill holes in the wood, working on the assumption that more surface area = faster water egress.

That being said, if it's spindly little bits of wood it might be more trouble than it's worth.

[M@.]

I have boiled wood a couple of times, and it seems to make it become waterloged faster (in my experience)

my theory on how this works is the air in the wood expands as it warms, forcing some of it out (as evidenced by streams of tiny bubble coming out the ends as the water/wood starts to heat up) and then the air that is left contracting as it cools, sucking water into the spaces.

I also found that after I had boiled it prety much put a stop to it leeching tannins - which seems in direct contrast to Dr A's experiences :dunno:

[Caryl]

All my wood was washed up on the beach and already waterlogged so I can't advise as to whether it helps it sink more quickly.

I suspect you have a tangle of roots which are not as dense as the heavier heart woods so it is less inclined to sink.

If you have not filled the tank yet, silicone the wood to the side and base glass to keep it in place.

I like M@.'s theory as I thought boiling released any air bubbles trapped in the wood. I remember being told adding baking soda to the water helped too (can't remember why or how much).

[Dr A]

my theory on how this works is the air in the wood expands as it warms, forcing some of it out (as evidenced by streams of tiny bubble coming out the ends as the water/wood starts to heat up) and then the air that is left contracting as it cools, sucking water into the spaces.

I don't agree with this, there is no air in wood.

The stuff you see coming out of the wood is most likely water (under pressure).

[Ira]

I don't agree with this, there is no air in wood.

The stuff you see coming out of the wood is most likely water (under pressure).

There is quite a significant amount of air in wood. It's very porous, pretty much a sponge of lignin with air between the fibers. Waterlogging it replaces the air with water increasing the density enough for it to sink. What do you think waterlogging does?

my theory on how this works is the air in the wood expands as it warms, forcing some of it out (as evidenced by streams of tiny bubble coming out the ends as the water/wood starts to heat up) and then the air that is left contracting as it cools, sucking water into the spaces.

Yep, I'm not sure what baking soda is supposed to do. Could work to decrease the water's surface tension a little making it more easily penetrate into the wood, but I don't know that it would be significant.

I've always thought the ideal way to waterlog wood would be with a vaccuum chamber. Pump as much air out as you can, maintain a vacuum for a while. This might take a while as all the air makes its way out of the wood, then open up another valve and dump water in. As the pressure increases it should force the water into every pore of the wood.

Never tried it though because I don't have a vacuum pump.

[hovmoller]

I have often just tied a rock to the wood with fishing line and then just put it in the tank and then take the rocks off after a few months.

Not ideal I know but better than hiring a pot to boil it or drill holes or whatever just to find out that it didn't work.

[NoFishing]

The spider wood takes about 2 months to sink. Or at least mine did. Unlike the other bog wood they sell, that sinks straight away.

[Adrienne]

Given the number of complete amateurs (although i'm not far from that either) purchasing from somewhere like HFF I'm a little surprised they don't stock a denser wood that has less difficulty in becoming water logged... I guess the other option is a water filled vacuum chamber... Anyone got one of those lying around in the auckland area?

Still curious to know about the boiling method... wondering if it's worth the effort.

HFF do stock hardwoods/dense wood as well - have for years - but people have been dead keen to get the wiggly branched look that spider wood has.

You could always attach some sinkers by fishing line for now assuming you have a little substrate to bury them in.

[alanmin4304]

The cell structure of wood is like a box of drinking straws in a dairy. This is why when you partially turn wet wood to make it dry quicker it does not dry evenly but curls on two sides as the sap is replaced by air. You are wanting to replace the air with water again and it may take some time. Like most things with aquariums--patience is a virtue.

[David R]

Like most things with aquariums--patience is a virtue.

Bingo. Give it a few months, rather than a few days. If you try to weight it down in the tank, make sure you do it very securely otherwise it will rocket back to the surface, potentially breaking lids, lights etc.

[darcy]

I like the idea of using sinkers... I was trying to avoid having lead in the tank but the reality is that it's probably okay so long as you're doing water changes. I should be able to tie a few large sinkers underneath the pieces of wood and hide them quite well. I think this will make it much easier than finding a large enough rock that will just use up more of my already limited space.

Are there any real issues with using lead in tanks these days?

[fmueller]

They sell lead sinkers for aquarium plants. I have used them, and they have never caused me any problems. That said, for a large piece of wood you'd need a lot of lead, which could be costly and wouldn't look very attractive in a tank. I have had good success attaching rocks to the wood with standard drywall screws. They work best with sandstone, because it is easy to drill a hole through the rock using a standard masonry bit. This works even for very large pieces of wood, and by the time the screws are rusted away, the wood will be well and truly waterlogged.

Big (12.6kg) piece of wood in a 125G held down by three pieces of sandstone (rock weight 15.4kg).

Masonry drill bit, plastic anchors, and drywall screws.

[Godly3vil]

What I have seem done before for spider wood is gluing it to ceramic tiles and burying these under the substrate, they work great and you don't even know they're there.

[David R]

I've also used screws to attach wood to things, works well with a large piece of acrylic under the substrate if you're starting from scratch, and it allows you to position the wood upright rather than having it resting on the ground. I'd recommend stainless screws though.

[jamosfish]

Try waterblasting it. Waterblasters tend to force water into the wood

[darcy]

A few more good suggestions... I was thinking of waterblasting it just before it goes in the tank, but was probably going to wait until it was waterlogged.

I like the idea of glueing to a piece of acrylic or stone... except my tank is already set up... damn... should have thought of that first!

As for the sinkers, the idea was to use fishing sinkers, not those teeny weeny plant weights It might be possible to attach the sinkers in such a way that while they look a bit fugly for a month, I could easily remove them once the piece is sufficiently water logged. Something like a fat and stubby Puka sinker would probably do the trick... well, a few of them anyway

I've had the two pieces weighted down for nearly a week now and they're still very buoyant... there are signs of improvement, but I think this is definitely a waiting game. I'll give it another week before trying lead fishing sinkers

Thanks everyone