New young fighter wont eat :(

[nieve5552]

I recently got a young fighter around 8 weeks old.

Hes really small so I put him in a clear plastic floating breeder container in the tank for the first few days so that he can get used to the water and the environment while not having to compete for food with the cherry barbs

(I did quite a bit of research on having cherry barbs and fighters as tankmates and the general consensus was that they were fine, hardly found any piece of information saying they couldnt be kept together)

I've tried Seachem nutridiet betta pellets, nutrafin flake (cherry barb food), daphnia and frozen bloodworm and it just wont eat any of them or show any interest.

I thought maybe it was the whole being in confinement thing that made the fighter lose its appetite so i let it out in the tank, it looked quite happy for a bit but soon seemed to have gotten overwhelmed by the interest shown by some of the cherry barbs so it kept on hiding and sitting on the tank floor.

So I put him back in the floating breeder with a bit of gravel, a tiny dwarf hairgrass and an indian almond leaf teabag.

After this i saw that he seemed to have a bit of an injury on his mouth, like a little bit of his skin was hanging off his upper lip. The bit of the skin seems to have fallen off but the upper lip looks weird now like its got a tiny hole.

Could this be the reason he is not eating even after 5 days from the initial introduction to the tank?

Im thinking that he will be fine with the cherry barbs once he gets a bit bigger, problem is that he just wont eat! :cry1:

Should I just wait until he gets really hungry or is there something else I could try?

Im suspecting that he may be depressed from being apart from his siblings + the change in its environment.

I've stuck a small mirror on the side of the tank so that it made him think that he was with another baby fighter but hasnt really changed him much..

What should I do?

The tank is 57L, got a few plants in there with black gravel and a couple of bogwood.

Ive been checking the water parameters regularly and they are all fine, no ammonia, nitrite or nitrate.

pH is around 7.3 or 7.4.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[binu]

add little epsom salt ..it ll help to heal and get rid of its stress

[F15hguy]

and any live food you can get, it should get him in the mood.

[Adrienne]

At eight weeks old it is too young to be eating much apart from small live foods ie brine shrimp, live daphnia. Personally I would never have dreamed at selling a fighter at that age. Where did you get it from? What were they feeding it?

You could try chopping up a single defrosted bloodworm and feed it a couple of 1-2 mm pieces. Apart from that see if you can get hold of some decapsulated brine shrimp. If you have to go dry foods try the micro pellets. Leave the fighter in the container, it will get used to it - it will be totally freaked out being so young and placed into a tank with other species of fish.

As a side note eight weeks you are unlikely to be able to sex it properly, it may end up being female

[Godly3vil]

Are you sure you don't have any nitrates, it's highly unlikely that you have 0 nitrates as the only way to remove them are with water changes and even then you should have some?

[nieve5552]

Thank you for all the advices :bggrn:

At eight weeks old it is too young to be eating much apart from small live foods ie brine shrimp, live daphnia. Personally I would never have dreamed at selling a fighter at that age. Where did you get it from? What were they feeding it?

You could try chopping up a single defrosted bloodworm and feed it a couple of 1-2 mm pieces. Apart from that see if you can get hold of some decapsulated brine shrimp. If you have to go dry foods try the micro pellets. Leave the fighter in the container, it will get used to it - it will be totally freaked out being so young and placed into a tank with other species of fish.

As a side note eight weeks you are unlikely to be able to sex it properly, it may end up being female

I decided that he was at least 8 weeks old by looking at this fry growth chart http://www.bettatalk.com/fry_growth.htm

I got him from a private breeder, she was feeding him tiny pellets like the Seachem nutridiet betta pellets that I got and when I was picking him up he was feeding well and moving around

Im planning to get some microworm in the next couple days, would that work as well as the brine shrimp?

Hopefully he is a male, but I will still love him if it turns out to be a female :love:

[nieve5552]

Are you sure you don't have any nitrates, it's highly unlikely that you have 0 nitrates as the only way to remove them are with water changes and even then you should have some?

I got the tank water tested twice a week for the last 4 weeks and havent had any or mostly almost 0 nitrates.

Maybe its due to the plants? Also the tank has only been set up for a few weeks (Was first set up on the 31st Aug) so that may be why theres not much nitrate build up, the tank only has had 7 cherry barbs for 2 weeks and the little fighter since around 5 days ago :bounce:

[nieve5552]

He died :cry1:

He'd just sit on the floor of the breeder and occasionally swim up to get some air

He didnt move around much but when he was getting air he'd swim pretty vigorously

He'd seemed fine until moments ago, he'd just swim up, get some air and fall down lifelessly onto his tail and stay unmoving

And a second ago I noticed him lying upside down on the breeder floor.. and his gills werent moving &c:ry

I tried holding him in my hands on the surface of the water and shaking him front and backwards to try put some air into his gills but to no avail

I dont understand why he died, fighters can go for a long time without eating so I wasnt worried about him starving to death just yet.. The water parameters are all fine, the 7 cherry barbs are swimming around chasing each other as usual

The only reason I can think of is he died of depression :cry1:

[Godly3vil]

I would be surprised if your tank was cycled after only a few weeks, that's probably why there is 0 nitrate.

[Ira]

I don't think the cycling would be an issue if your ammonia and nitrite are 0.

My guess would be, How did you acclimate it to the new tank? Many people seem to completely skip or barely acclimate fish. I've found acclimating slowly over a few hours makes a HUGE difference in deaths. I float fish in a bag in the tank and add a small scoop of water every 15 minutes or so until I get really bored or it's time to turn the lights out, usually 5-6 hours.

[livingart]

Putting a juvenile fish in with bigger fish can be a recipe for disaster

[nieve5552]

I don't think the cycling would be an issue if your ammonia and nitrite are 0.

My guess would be, How did you acclimate it to the new tank? Many people seem to completely skip or barely acclimate fish. I've found acclimating slowly over a few hours makes a HUGE difference in deaths. I float fish in a bag in the tank and add a small scoop of water every 15 minutes or so until I get really bored or it's time to turn the lights out, usually 5-6 hours.

I thought so too

I had the tank running empty for the first week, I was keen on doing a fishless cycle but coudlnt fine pure ammonia you're supposed to use for fishless cycle

I added 7 cherry barbs after that, and tested the water every 2-3 days. Ammonia reading never went over 0.25 during the first week and a half and dropped to 0

I take around 30 minutes - 1 hour to acclimate all fish that I add to the tank. I've read in the Tropical Fish Keeping magazine that taking too long to acclimate the fish will stress it out more than it getting stressed out from a slight change in temp, pH and hardness

My usual method of acclimation is floating the bag in the tank water, slowly adding little amounts of tank water into the bag water and netting the fish out, discarding the bag water. And then I leave the fish with the lights off and dont feed for the night.

[nieve5552]

Putting a juvenile fish in with bigger fish can be a recipe for disaster

That seem to be quite true

I thought they would be fine as cherry barbs are quite small and peaceful fish.. :fshi:

[chaos0wnage]

He died :cry1:

He'd just sit on the floor of the breeder and occasionally swim up to get some air

He didnt move around much but when he was getting air he'd swim pretty vigorously

He'd seemed fine until moments ago, he'd just swim up, get some air and fall down lifelessly onto his tail and stay unmoving

And a second ago I noticed him lying upside down on the breeder floor.. and his gills werent moving &c:ry

I tried holding him in my hands on the surface of the water and shaking him front and backwards to try put some air into his gills but to no avail

I dont understand why he died, fighters can go for a long time without eating so I wasnt worried about him starving to death just yet.. The water parameters are all fine, the 7 cherry barbs are swimming around chasing each other as usual

The only reason I can think of is he died of depression :cry1:

Where did you get two month old fighters? That's a pretty big chance to take you know. are you located in Auckland? I have a few fighters to spare. At two months of age BBS and daphnia are the best foods, I don't start pellets until 3 Months of age but that's just me cause I want them to be in breeding mode :sml2:

What was the water temperature? it could be a parasite that messed the fish up if he full on didn't eat.

[Trilobite]

Sorry to hear you lost your fish :-(

I dont think he died of depression. My guess is that he was already unhealthy to begin with, which would explain his "depressed" behaviour. All healthy young fighters should be greedy and active and it shouldnt take them 5 days to get used to new surroundings, should only take them 10 mins or so.

You noticed he had a damaged mouth at the beginning, maybe that had something to do with an illness or disease.

Also are you sure he was 2 months? that chart is quite inaccurate since most spawns grow at different rates. He could have been a runt, or the whole spawn could have been stunted

[nieve5552]

Where did you get two month old fighters? That's a pretty big chance to take you know. are you located in Auckland? I have a few fighters to spare. At two months of age BBS and daphnia are the best foods, I don't start pellets until 3 Months of age but that's just me cause I want them to be in breeding mode :sml2:

What was the water temperature? it could be a parasite that messed the fish up if he full on didn't eat.

I got him from a breeder, Im located in Christchurch

Thank you for your offer, you're too kind :bggrn:

I may go on a hunt for another fighter in a few weeks, I think I'll make it the last addition after kuhli loaches

I had no idea that 8 weeks was too young, how old should a fighter be before being separated from its siblings?

The water temp was around 27 or 28 (heater is set to 26 but a recently acquired thermometer said 28 :dunno: )

[nieve5552]

Sorry to hear you lost your fish :-(

I dont think he died of depression. My guess is that he was already unhealthy to begin with, which would explain his "depressed" behaviour. All healthy young fighters should be greedy and active and it shouldnt take them 5 days to get used to new surroundings, should only take them 10 mins or so.

You noticed he had a damaged mouth at the beginning, maybe that had something to do with an illness or disease.

Also are you sure he was 2 months? that chart is quite inaccurate since most spawns grow at different rates. He could have been a runt, or the whole spawn could have been stunted

Thank you :tears:

He was swimming around quite happily in the breeder's tank when I got him..

Im not fully sure about his age, I tried emailing the breeder to ask his exact age but did not receive a reply

I did see a couple of his siblings and they were all around the same size, very small and cute

Thank you very much for your advice!

Quite saddened by his death, he was such a pretty one

[chaos0wnage]

Hello again,

It could just be bad luck... :ske:

The idea of him being too young to be sold is not about separating him from his siblings, what I had in mind was thee chance of survival in varying water conditions.

Hardiness increases with time to a certain point because when the babies near 3 months of age the fish ( fins, scales, body, colour as well as breathing and immune systems) is still growing and coming to be fully operational. There are other conditions such as feeding and care that determine development.

So what I'm saying is... at two months of age it is not a fully developed fish yet.

Its kind of like saying a 5ft6 80kg grammar school first 15 rugby team member is already an all black.

Just wont have the experience or skills to survive on the field... for long.

I'm just saying that as a comparison (I know its not that similar) .

Here its not the same but similar as the fish would probably not be ready to adapt to different water conditions or have an immune system to produce antibodies to whatever may have been dormant in the breeders water, whatever it was probably became active in your waters and attacked the most eligible host because the conditions may have been right for it to come out of dormancy.

I have before dropped in my adult fighters into water which was 17 degrees and quickly put the heater on, they have survived until the water caught up to required temperature (to be fair they were plakats and I was doing a study on adaptation and sensory usage under ideal temperature).

But young fry can die at 23 degrees.

Personally I think you should take it in as experience and get a bigger fish next time, only keep it to acclimate until both container water and tank water are at same temperature so max would be like an hour?

[nieve5552]

Hello again,

It could just be bad luck... :ske:

The idea of him being too young to be sold is not about separating him from his siblings, what I had in mind was thee chance of survival in varying water conditions.

Hardiness increases with time to a certain point because when the babies near 3 months of age the fish ( fins, scales, body, colour as well as breathing and immune systems) is still growing and coming to be fully operational. There are other conditions such as feeding and care that determine development.

So what I'm saying is... at two months of age it is not a fully developed fish yet.

Its kind of like saying a 5ft6 80kg grammar school first 15 rugby team member is already an all black.

Just wont have the experience or skills to survive on the field... for long.

I'm just saying that as a comparison (I know its not that similar) .

Here its not the same but similar as the fish would probably not be ready to adapt to different water conditions or have an immune system to produce antibodies to whatever may have been dormant in the breeders water, whatever it was probably became active in your waters and attacked the most eligible host because the conditions may have been right for it to come out of dormancy.

I have before dropped in my adult fighters into water which was 17 degrees and quickly put the heater on, they have survived until the water caught up to required temperature (to be fair they were plakats and I was doing a study on adaptation and sensory usage under ideal temperature).

But young fry can die at 23 degrees.

Personally I think you should take it in as experience and get a bigger fish next time, only keep it to acclimate until both container water and tank water are at same temperature so max would be like an hour?

Thank you for your advice

I thought I did a decent job of acclimating.. Next time I will definitely be using a thermometer to check the bag water temperature as well!

And also will definitely get a fighter that is old enough, how old should they be before they can be introduced to new environments without any problem?

The reason I got the young fish was because I wanted to see his fins grow out

[Trilobite]

I dump my baby fighters into a new tank when they are about 2cm. No acclimation, just gather them into a bowl and pour them into a new tank and I havent had any deaths.

They are pretty hardy things

[chaos0wnage]

I generally don't move my fighters until they are 4 weeks old or more, breed in 24L acrylic tanks contained in 200L glass tank, I just tip them into the glass tank when their appearance is more fish like. Saves me worrying as both tanks are same temp.

You can make it work with 8 week old but you'd have to be super careful with tank and competition the fish would face, but I don't know, its a personal choice and depends on the strength as well as strain of the fish. Personally if I'd want to see him grow I'd ask a breeder for a stable well coloured fish... make sure its not a pk as their fins don't grow big. Alternatively you can breed your own? or go for a good 3 month old. They only get bigger lol :bggrn:

[ss_boy86]

yes they are super hardy, i just transfer mine to new tanks all the time. a lot more touchy though the babys.