henward Posted November 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 have you considered having a long pvc pipe the length of the tank with alot of holes in it to distrubite the suction over the tank? also if you made the tank what would stop you from using the plywood to make the sump also? it would help better than the glass to keep the heat in the tank especally if its outside? also something of note as a cheaper way of the sump why dont people just use a plastic tub? its not like your ment to see the sump anyway See your point.. Personally i like the look of a cool sump lol But yes... Plastic tubs are viable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I dont think the toughen would be a good idea, you or someone is likely to bump the edge of the glass and then the house is wet. As far as the inside nonload pane goes, why dont you get the local glass company to DG or lami it with the arcylic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I am thinking how i would do an overflow on tis ply tank? do a standard over flow as if it was glass? OR a hole on the wall, with a drain? but suction on that will be quite massive ? danger to fish? standard like glass just use longer threads on pipe work do 2 or 3 to reduce flow on each or put mesh cage on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I am thinking how i would do an overflow on tis ply tank? do a standard over flow as if it was glass? OR a hole on the wall, with a drain? but suction on that will be quite massive ? danger to fish? http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 300-Gallon I think having a slot in the ply on the side of the tank and an external box with the drains in the bottom is the way to go. RE the plastic tubs for sump, they can work but they aren't as easy to put baffles in like a glass or acrylic tank, and the other problem I've found is there aren't many plastic tubs available big enough for the size of the sump I need! They get these 150g Rubbermade 'Stock Troughs' in the US and people on MFK use them for sumps, but most of the big ones I see here are round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Wonder if it would be overkill to use cross laminated timber to build this tank ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Wonder if it would be overkill to use cross laminated timber to build this tank ... What's the price difference? We're only talking enough water to fill the average house 20mm deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 CLT has a strength similar to concrete but much lighter. So, you could build a much bigger tank Price .. not sure. Have to ask the factory in Nelson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 yeah, cost vs volume the volume cannot be ridiculous i would have liked 1000 gallons approx. but i think 3k litres is the optimal balance with cost vs volumne. as for the drain box with drain at the bottom. that could be a winner. so really like an over flow but the water goes into a box before draining. could work. i want to set it up so the water flows into 4 socks, the socks then can be replaced easily one by one. so the water from the drain box will split into 4 pipes. hard to explain i guess:D image in my head cannot always be translated into words .... thank goodness but a drain pipe like mark said could work too. or pipes with many holes drilled on it. so cant clog - but has rapid draining capabilities. i dont want any accumulation of water in the tank so when there is a powercut , then it overflows the sump. if the sump is outside, then doesnt matter. I am leaning towards ply more and more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 i dont want any accumulation of water in the tank so when there is a powercut , then it overflows the sump. if the sump is outside, then doesnt matter. or if you size your sump correctly so there is room to hold the water that drains down from the tank then it doesn't matter..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 or if you size your sump correctly so there is room to hold the water that drains down from the tank then it doesn't matter..... True, i guess i would attempt to do that. my last sump and the 1200 was perfect, no flooding, drains perfectly as the right speed. so it isnt impossible.. but in the event that i screw it up:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Just go bigger...... :digH: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 this next build i am doing have been thinking of using 3 drains at water level then using large plastic guttering width of tank to create an overflow box onto the fittings 200 litre barrel to house skimmer and socks and then 1,000 litr rockpool for sump using 20mm acrylic for front pane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxxnz Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 3k tank :thup: calling..calling Mr> Brain.T he the man for that size of tank!! personal im thinking 1.2 in height is too deep! i can see you are more taller than me but even with my tank at .900 you still wouldnt have a good chance reaching the bottom with your fingers.:slfg: last time i was over Brain .T his tank panel was custom made @ +20mm glass i think! you going to make it out of ply sheets! it can be done, but too much work & bracing invole i think.. have you consider ply for structure and maybe going on the safe and cheaper water proofing it with 8-10mm internal float? i wouldnt be using paintable water proofing memberaine for the tank! it will leak in long term. Resin coat is tough and ok too..but work involve.. as for tank stand :sml1: iam struggling to fit in a sump for stand height @ .400, so if you were going for 1.2 deep + STAND i can imagine you once again climbing on that long ladder again.. :sml1: I would difinately try to design attachable sump on one side or better on both side on the tank.. "say another detachable tank hard up againt the side with a glass panel overhang over it for overflow water.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 this tank is made of 12mm glass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 this tank is made of 12mm glass what are the dimensions of that again? i read that the tank is also very dependent on bracing along the length of the tank. this would help the strength of the tank, allowing for thinner glass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 3300x800x800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 proposed size formine is 3m by 1.2m wide x 90cm high but im thinking now, options, 15mm glass is much cheaper apparently. MUCH cheaper. so considering 80cm whcih would drop it to 15mm with a safety factor of 2.4. according to the calculator, its not the width its the height right. 80 is pretty high, comparing to my current tank, its quite high. 1.2 is deep as well, shame its only 2600 litres compared to 3000. see how it goes i suppose. its all bout the bang fo ryour buck 10 cms height wont add much to the dynamics of arowana comm - its the width that makes the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 proposed size formine is 3m by 1.2m wide x 90cm high but im thinking now, options, 15mm glass is much cheaper apparently. MUCH cheaper. so considering 80cm whcih would drop it to 15mm with a safety factor of 2.4. according to the calculator, its not the width its the height right. 80 is pretty high, comparing to my current tank, its quite high. 1.2 is deep as well, shame its only 2600 litres compared to 3000. see how it goes i suppose. its all bout the bang fo ryour buck 10 cms height wont add much to the dynamics of arowana comm - its the width that makes the difference. Is there any reason to limit it to 1.2m deep? 3x3 footprint would be cool, just set up a pulley system above the tank you could use to swing yourself over it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Room and logistics of cleaning i guess. Heating too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilwis Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 yea it mostly just pressure of per square inch of height so doesnt matter about the length much at all it kinda works out that 1 square cm of surface area in a colum of water 1m tall is about 1 kg so say your tank is 1m cubed then the bottom of the tank is holding the spread out weight of about 1000kg (1 ton) but if the tank is 1m x 1m but only 50cm deep the bottom only has to hold 500kg weight spread over the surface, in saying that it makes it only .5kg per square cm by adding the safety factor and working out your proposed tank of 15mm glass (man im not good with math) 300x120=36000 square cm .9 tall means its .9kg per cm2 then the safety factor of 2.4 is 0.9x2.4=2.16 so really your tank can handle 2.16kg per cm2 not enough for a adult to walk inside but plenty to cover how much weight the water and rocks will handle not to mention your bottom is wood and not glass anyway so i guess its just rambelings other than that being the pressure the joins or bottom square cm of the tank can handle? i guess it gives you refrence on how strong you need to make the base and joins anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilwis Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Room and logistics of cleaning i guess. Heating too. heating will really be a kicker for you might pay to make the ply thicker than needed to add some insulation to help keep the cost down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 If you're going DIY and only using one panel of glass go for 900 high and bite the bullet on 19mm glass (and get ultra-clear too!), will be worth it long-run IMO. Jack; Brians big tank has a 19mm glass panel, and is 270x120x90cm IIRC. Epic tank, you need to pay him a visit before embarking on this project Henward! 3300x800x800 He is braver than I am going 800 high with 12mm glass! Has he got it stocked yet? I haven't checked the thread in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 He is braver than I am going 800 high with 12mm glass! Has he got it stocked yet? I haven't checked the thread in a while. i don't know what the calcs or the reasoning behind it being 12mm are, it was made professionally so perhaps the glazier has made them this way before and there have been no issues. when creating a calculator like that with so many different potential entries and outcomes perhaps it is over/under calculated for the "ass covering" factor of the creator, not sure but what i do know is in real life that tank is made, full and hasn't blown to bits so perhaps it is safer than the calc program tells us. thinking about how i would make that calculator, I do wonder how they have factored in the top bracing. maybe the calc formula doesn't allow for that. there are few experiences i have had in the building industry and also experiences my old man has had in civil construction with engineers that are totally unbelievable either "under engineered" or so far "over engineered" it makes you think they are not up to the job so it will be interesting to see if anything bad happens to that tank. I don't think there will be but time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 when creating a calculator like that with so many different potential entries and outcomes perhaps it is over/under calculated for the "ass covering" factor of the creator, not sure but what i do know is in real life that tank is made, full and hasn't blown to bits so perhaps it is safer than the calc program tells us. thinking about how i would make that calculator, I do wonder how they have factored in the top bracing. maybe the calc formula doesn't allow for that. The calculations tell us that it should hold, anything over a safety factor of 1 should theoretically hold IF the glass has no flaws, it is perfectly assembled and adequately braced, and evenly supported on a dead level solid stand. The safety factor is the "ass-covering" factor and that is what the calculator is designed to calculate based on the physical properties of glass (and not someones idea of an "ass covering factor"). Obviously who ever built the tank was confident enough in his skills and glass supplier to believe that 0.5 over what is needed is enough "ass-covering". The general consensus here seems to be that you want at least 2 times SF, and closer to 3 is ideal, though what that is based on I am not sure (maybe Warren can elaborate?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 And then there's earthquakes. An earthquake with a peak ground acceleration of 2 Gs laterally(About chch quake sized) would effectively drop the safety factor of any tank by 2. So anything under 3 would drop to under 1. Assuming nothing else broke or slipped. But that's pretty significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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