Dr A Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hey, My guy has seems to have developed finrot. He's otherwise happy/healthy... His water parameters seemed OK (GH 160~120, KH 0~40, PH 6, NO2 < .5, NO3 < 20). I've got him in a hospital tank at the moment with salt. I've got indian almond leaves in there too, I'm just curious if I should be doing both at the same time... Salt is obviously alkaline, and the almond leaves are acidic. I plan to try him on salt (Tonic Salt) in a quarantine tank doing 100% water changes until I see some improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Salt is not alkaline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Ha, now I look (more) stupid. In hindsight of-course it's not... Oh well. Anyway he's building bubble nests in his new home. I I'm kind of suspicious that the long photo-period the tank was exposed to might have been to blame. I was doing at least 2x 15% water changes a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 I've found Bettas sometimes get finrot for no real reason, despite great water conditions. I just used Meth blue, a bit of salt and kept up the high quality food to aid recovery. You're doing all the right things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A Posted October 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Do you think it's worth continually dosing a bit of salt into his normal tank? Doesn't' interfere with the filter at all? I'll keep him a hospital tank / jars until things start to get better, 24hrs in each, no filter, salt + 100% water changes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I dosed salt and meth blue daily in a small jar/cup to save medication, changed all of the water once daily and it worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepsnana Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I'll keep him a hospital tank / jars until things start to get better :facepalm: Jars are not a hospital tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 :facepalm: Jars are not a hospital tank depends on the type of fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 depends on the type of fish I agree. So long as the water quality is good, Bettas, and most sick fish for that matter, are okay in a smaller space. It's easier and more cost effective for the keeper and the fish is only there for a short while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepsnana Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I agree. So long as the water quality is good, Bettas, and most sick fish for that matter, are okay in a smaller space. It's easier and more cost effective for the keeper and the fish is only there for a short while. I have a quarantine tank, 60 x 30 x 30. It has a filter and an airstone. It may just be me :dunno: , but I don't like seeing fish in small confined spaces. And to get in before Fishguy: Those badis are tiny, but I still wouldn't put them in a jar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I agree. So long as the water quality is good, Bettas, and most sick fish for that matter, are okay in a smaller space. It's easier and more cost effective for the keeper and the fish is only there for a short while. The very nature of a hospital tank or container is that it's a temporary place for the fish to recover. I love seeing fighters have a whole 60x30 to themselves but I've seen them just as happy in tanks half that size and in coke bottles too. It would be cruel to keep a neon tetra in a coke bottle, they love to swim but Bettas are less fussed about having room to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A Posted October 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 depends on the type of fish Well my "hospital" tank is circa 30L, but only 3/4 full. No lights, and an oven tray over the top to keep the condensation and heat in. He spent day one in there, day two in in one of those big 3.5L juice bottles - with the top cut off - standing in the tank. This effectively gives him a 100% water change (when filled with new water, dechlorinator, salt, almond leaves), and I only have to heat the bottle-load of water (the heater is in the main tank). Surely that's less stressful than moving the fish elsewhere (ie: back into my every day tank with it's possible bad bacteria) while I heat up a new tank load of water. Everything I've read says no filter as water-movement slows down fin-regrowth. I've got another large plastic bottle I'll put in tonight, I found the last one go up to 26 degrees in an hour or so, and I can take out the old one and wash it. I can keep swapping them over in this manner until the his fins improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Everything I've read says no filter as water-movement slows down fin-regrowth. I think thats dangerous thinking, you need a filter as you need the cleanest water to improve re-growth, just use a low current style like a HOB or a slow bubbling sponge. personally I find no difference between growth in current or out of it. some people claim quicker growth if the fish is displaying to a mirror constantly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think thats dangerous thinking, you need a filter as you need the cleanest water to improve re-growth, just use a low current style like a HOB or a slow bubbling sponge. personally I find no difference between growth in current or out of it. some people claim quicker growth if the fish is displaying to a mirror constantly Mute point as the water is being completely replaced every 24hrs though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepsnana Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'll keep him a hospital tank / jars until things start to get better, 24hrs in each, no filter, salt + 100% water changes... Well my "hospital" tank is circa 30L, but only 3/4 full. No lights, and an oven tray over the top to keep the condensation and heat in. He spent day one in there, day two in in one of those big 3.5L juice bottles - with the top cut off - standing in the tank. This effectively gives him a 100% water change (when filled with new water, dechlorinator, salt, almond leaves), and I only have to heat the bottle-load of water (the heater is in the main tank). Surely that's less stressful than moving the fish elsewhere (ie: back into my every day tank with it's possible bad bacteria) while I heat up a new tank load of water. Everything I've read says no filter as water-movement slows down fin-regrowth. I had a mental picture of a Betta in jam jars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 When I refer to jars, I mean cut up coke/juice bottles floating in a larger tank of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 in a small container/tank ammonia can build up rather quickly to unsafe concentrations. just because your replacing the water doesn't mean the ammonia has not done any damage already, why not have a filter, as long as it doesn't have activated carbon in it it will only help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Got a picture of the fin rot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Got a picture of the fin rot? Will pop one up tonight. I suspect he's had it for as long as I've got him, although it's hard to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Pictures. Feel sorry for the little guy. His tail is breaking up still and is developing small holes in it (too fine to see in the photograph). He's still in good temperament. The blue is from 1drop of Wundertonic. To recap: Took him out of his main tank last sunday (I think, might have been sat). Since then he has been in the hospital tank (for one day), and then in alternating floating juice bottles, effectively giving him 100% water changes every day. Every tank he's been in has had a dosing of tonic salts too. Had conflicting reports of how to use the wundertonic, I've been giving one drop per aprox 2L. Still no sign of improvement, indeed that bit of tail hanging off the back is getting noticeably worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 are you planning on breeding him??? wundertonic may cause sterility if used for too long at strong concentrations I use the 1ml per 20L measure and it works well, only treat for 2 weeks max (if it aint fixed by then you have something strange going on) keep temp around 27 degrees and give him a bit extra to eat (lotsa live food if poss) happier fish recover a lot quicker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxximuscool Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 I'm a Siamese Fighter expert Do what I told you and your fish will be happily and healthy ever after. Add some real plants in there, 20% water change once a day for 1 week and a bit of salt and if the condition still the same then add a few more grain of tonic salt the next day before changing water. If you can find old sun dried banana leaf then he'll appreciate it more than Indian almond leaves. Banana leaves will make the water kind of smelly but that is normal I only had fin rot once when my betta fry really small. It has ich and then fin rot but after I eliminate the problem my betta kind of immune to it until today. So yes my fish never have any fin rot I have lots of Java Ferns, Java Moss, Amazon Sword, Indian Ferns, duck weeds, Anubias nano and anna and some other floating one. Cause of fin rot may be due to stress or immune system of the fish is getting to weak. Always feed bloodworm at least once a week or live foods even better. Feed variety of foods to keep him healthy and less picky later on. Bettas doesn't really like too much light. Usually they hide underneath the lotus leaf, water hyacinth, water lettus, oxygen weed and floating dead leaves in their natural environment in South East Asia. And usually the longer fin Siamese Fighters are prone to get fin rot easily. The Plaket or wild one won't get fin rot that easily. OH! Most importantly I have more than 20 Bettas in each tank currently. Before I had about 100-150 per tank, yes it is a lot, all that is from one batch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A Posted October 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 I'm a Siamese Fighter expert Do what I told you and your fish will be happily and healthy ever after. Add some real plants in there, 20% water change once a day for 1 week and a bit of salt and if the condition still the same then add a few more grain of tonic salt the next day before changing water. If you can find old sun dried banana leaf then he'll appreciate it more than Indian almond leaves. Banana leaves will make the water kind of smelly but that is normal I only had fin rot once when my betta fry really small. It has ich and then fin rot but after I eliminate the problem my betta kind of immune to it until today. So yes my fish never have any fin rot I have lots of Java Ferns, Java Moss, Amazon Sword, Indian Ferns, duck weeds, Anubias nano and anna and some other floating one. Cause of fin rot may be due to stress or immune system of the fish is getting to weak. Always feed bloodworm at least once a week or live foods even better. Feed variety of foods to keep him healthy and less picky later on. Bettas doesn't really like too much light. Usually they hide underneath the lotus leaf, water hyacinth, water lettus, oxygen weed and floating dead leaves in their natural environment in South East Asia. And usually the longer fin Siamese Fighters are prone to get fin rot easily. The Plaket or wild one won't get fin rot that easily. OH! Most importantly I have more than 20 Bettas in each tank currently. Before I had about 100-150 per tank, yes it is a lot, all that is from one batch. Huh? Thanks for typing the reply but I'm already doing that/the other stuff you said isn't relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxximuscool Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Huh? Thanks for typing the reply but I'm already doing that/the other stuff you said isn't relevant. Well just some reply to help you with the information that's all. But good luck with your sick fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 It is time to use Furan, chances are that it is now bacterial. Furan can be purchased from hff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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