diver21 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 arnt these an unwanted organism in NZ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 If you are meaning a morphed axolotl (salamander) then yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Interesting indeed... :spop: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver21 Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 i thought as much. Alanmin, do you have some sort of link that comfirms and possibly a reason as to why? It just seems kinda odd that an axolottyl (sp?) would be fine, but the same species in a diffrent stage would not. Ps, im not doing this myself, its just a rather nice looking golden 'SALAMANDA' appeared for sale and got me thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Id love to see maf do anything about this considering it is simply a matter of lowering the water level to have them undergo the change. If this individual is to cause an issue all axolotl would have to come off the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghaz Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Id love to see maf do anything about this considering it is simply a matter of lowering the water level to have them undergo the change. If this individual is to cause an issue all axolotl would have to come off the market. well they may be able to prove that it is cruelty to animals, Don't Axy's only morph if due to necessity IE. no/very little water(Which seems the reason for the guy selling it), or very unhealthy water, and the more inhuman way of purposely adding pollutants to force the morph etc. which also puts alot of stress on the animal causing its lifespan to be significantly reduced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruju Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yeah I was intrigued by that auction, looks cooler IMO. I was under the impression that once it turns terrestrial it is an unwanted organism? Retarded concept seeing as they are legal in their aquatic form :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 odd as they, in all likelihood, could never breed in the morphed state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 My understanding is that they very rarely morph by themselves as Mexico and New Zealand are both very low in iodine. They can be forced to morph with the addition of iodine, feeding thyroxin (as in sweetbreads---sheeps thyroid gland) or lowering the water level, or all three. Doing this is against the way they have evolved and their life is considerably shortened. Many years ago people were morphing them to try and breed them without realising that axies breed. Can't see the point myself. There are a number of ways things can be banned---Maf, Niwa or the Regional Council. Who knows why the same species can be banned or not banned, but I know the powers that be would have liked to see them banned for years but there are probably too many around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcculloch Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Actually quite difficult to get them to morph seems to happen randomly sometimes, might be a genitic throw back. The ones that are forced to morph useing hormones don't live that long good infomation about it here. http://www.axolotl.org/tiger_salamander.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Axolotls are choice but trying to morph them often kills them as it puts them through a lot of stress. As previously stated it weakens them and shortens their lives, greatly reduces their ability to regenerate too. Best to keep them as an enormous tadpole. They are critically endangered in the wild almost extinct only found in a few polluted lakes and water ways. I tried to morph one a few years back (slowly evaporated the water over many months, gills and fin on back started to shrink) but after researching the risks to the animal decided against it. Using chemical method is risky too as exact measurement of quantities needed often proves difficult. People have also claimed that theirs have changed after a sudden jolt but if this were the case there would be heaps of salamanders in christchurch, so this must happen on very rare occassions. I have been thinking of making a shallow pond with different coloured axolotls , i think it would look quite neat with the gold and white ones contrasting the blacks and wild coloured types. If people really want a salamander get a fire bellied newt then you dont have to worry about the problems of metamorphosing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaky2 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 bollocks!!! the lifespan isnt shortend via metamorphosis. the lifespan is shortend because of either crap-0 water quality while morphing,or synthetic THYROXN. or ignorance(if i lower the water level it will morph) or crap husbandry after morphing!!! :facepalm: endangered in the wild,millions in the pet industry. if anybody wants ta morph one contact me [email protected] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 I heard you can stimulate the morphing by feeding live tadpoles which have high concentrations of the hormones required, any truth in this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 There are easier ways of getting natural thyroxin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 easier??, I thought a bag of $1 tadpoles providing cheap live food would be pretty easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Seasonal though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 Axolotls are choice but trying to morph them often kills them as it puts them through a lot of stress. As previously stated it weakens them and shortens their lives, greatly reduces their ability to regenerate too. Best to keep them as an enormous tadpole. They are critically endangered in the wild almost extinct only found in a few polluted lakes and water ways. I tried to morph one a few years back (slowly evaporated the water over many months, gills and fin on back started to shrink) but after researching the risks to the animal decided against it. Using chemical method is risky too as exact measurement of quantities needed often proves difficult. People have also claimed that theirs have changed after a sudden jolt but if this were the case there would be heaps of salamanders in christchurch, so this must happen on very rare occassions. I have been thinking of making a shallow pond with different coloured axolotls , i think it would look quite neat with the gold and white ones contrasting the blacks and wild coloured types. If people really want a salamander get a fire bellied newt then you dont have to worry about the problems of metamorphosing it. **Stuff i learnt from an oldie who i wont name but is very wise and had, at one point been morphing his axies for years, although only breeding them in newt form to my knowledge. Its actually very easy to "let" them morph. And the reason they do this is because, here's the kicker, they are supposed to. As Alan said, along their evolutionary process they became trapped because the nutrient they needed to activate the hormones that caused the next metamorphosis where no longer available or limited to them through mineral and nutrient rich water or food and as previously mentioned, some still, regardless, for whatever reason, will change without any environmental or food based contributions. These creatures are absolutely magnificent to science. They are one of the few creatures in the world that has the ability to make repairs and sometimes even replace major organs naturally. Its even been recorded that they can make repairs to the more minor parts of the brain (Health benefits wise, medical science loves this creature). Its a testament to this animal that even though life tried to snuff it out, it was genetically diverse enough to become one of the only animals that can actually breed during its "newt" or "larval" stage, this however was a development caused by their inability to make the last metamorphosis. Granted it is basically extinct in the wild now, but that is largely due to human influence, though not limited to. Yes, when they morph there can be a life expectancy shortage. This is because it is their "last" stage of living, but has not stopped morphed salamanders from living another 5-8 years. Often the process of life shortening is due to the humans inability to care for the animal properly and also axolotls are often seen as very low maintenance pets, when in fact they deserve just as much attention. They do not "weaken" in this last form, rather quite the opposite, the legs, joints and back strengthen marvelously to accommodate the salamander for its last stage. You don't need to use chemicals or hormones or purposefully keep them in terrible water conditions. An axie will happily live in shallower water as long as it is regularly changed and/or filtered. In fact normal behavior in a terrarium type setup will show that they prefer to hang in the shallows, under some cover, or near some very wet peat. The key to keeping them alive and healthy once fully transformed is to change their enclosure to almost entirely peat or another soil like substance that can be kept moist for them to dig around in. There is plenty of information on the net on how to setup for a salamander once its morphed and what to feed them to keep them healthy. You will also find PLENTY of people screaming animal abuse, there are plenty of arguments out their to support and then rebut. But i say why not, if you can do it the right way and then have the ability to keep them properly, help your axie achieve his/her full potential. However i will not support the use of anything other than fresh water and a varied diet. Feed live food Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 Please remember that silly as it might be salamanders are unwanted organisms so when you get the visit from MPI please don't ring me as I will be busy doing something sensible and legal like feeding my Japanese fire bellied newts. The Federation does not wish to be seen to be encouraging illegal activities such as morphing axies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 hrmm... aren;t newts a type of salamander???? im confused now.... its probably one of those laws that needs to be changed but no one can be bothered hiring a lawyer to fix it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 It would be really nice one day to have some super intelligent people making the decisions. Much like our government. :spop: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 I understand that you have to sit an IQ test to get to parliament (and get less than 30) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 haha dammit this forum needs a "like" button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 I understand that you have to sit an IQ test to get to parliament (and get less than 30) :sml1: :sml1: :sml1: we all know this is true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Please remember that silly as it might be salamanders are unwanted organisms so when you get the visit from MPI please don't ring me as I will be busy doing something sensible and legal like feeding my Japanese fire bellied newts. The Federation does not wish to be seen to be encouraging illegal activities such as morphing axies. Alan do you have a reference for that, just looked and cant find one. It would be really nice one day to have some super intelligent people making the decisions. Much like our government. :spop:There are some very intelligent people with-in MPI and the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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