Polwarth Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 What have I done wrong, Morning all I have a 170 litre corner tank which I am trying to cycle with no fish. I have planted it out and the plants are gowing great, we had a small algal bloom which we have corrected. BUT I have not managed to get any nitrates or nitrites produced, the ammonia level is at 4 on my test kit, and the pH is at 7.4 despite introducing a piece of wood to reduce it. Well it did to start with but the pH climbed back up over the next week. I have feed the tank to start the cycling process. I am using a API Fresh water master test kit. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong, as I have been waiting for the cycle to finish for 8 weeks now and I would like to get some fish next month. Philip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshlikesfish Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 What filter media do you have? Have you been cleaning the filter media? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodKing Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 If you are in town this weekend I can give you some nice and dirty media to get you started. Drop me a PM if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 What did you feed the tank with to start the process? What filter and media are using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polwarth Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thanks for the quick replies. I have a Eheim cansiter filter which puts thru 440L / hour and other than washing / rinsing the media at the start I have done nothing to it. I did however add stability ? a product to improve the tanks bio life. The "food" I feed the tank was just that fish food, I was told the decaying food will create the ammonia we were looking for, and it has but maybe it took a bit longer than using household ammonia. Philip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 your Ph is at a good level for cycling. Your water temp wants to be around 26-30 deg c Your ammonia is high if that is 4ppm. Your really dont want any more than 2ppm. using house hold ammonia is easier and quicker but it would be better to use clear rather than cloudy ammonia. I would check you parameters and try and get them to close to above. Get the ammonia level to 1-2ppm by water changes. Test daily or every second day till ammonia gets to zero. Once ammonia gets to zero bring it back to 1-2ppm by adding more of your ammonia source. (this is where ammonia is good as it happens pretty much instantly to easy to measure) Keep testing. once ammonia is reaching zero in 24 hours start testing nitrites. Nitrites could be off the chart. If so do daily water changes to get the nitrites down to say 4. Just like ammonia, if the nitrites are too high it can stall the progress. Keeping adding ammonia every 3 days or so while testing nitrites (remember your ammonia should be converting to nitrites in 24hrs by now) Once nitrites reach zero you tank is cycled. In My experience waiting for the nitrites to come down can take 2-3 times longer than the ammonia drop. Water changes to get nitrates down then add fish Remember to be light on your water changes. (say 20- 30% max) to not disturb your bacteria too much. Take the water from the top of the tank rather than interfering with your substrate. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hi and welcome to the Fishroom. There is some tank cycling info here: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/?p=1868 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polwarth Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 OK first mistake I have found I have had the water temp set at 25 degress, so I have set that to go up to 30 degrees, I will do a 20% water change to help reduce the ammonia level and hopfully start the process. I will test the water Saturday to see what we have done. Thanks for all the help Philip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 The temperature shouldn't make a difference to the cycling since outdoor ponds also need to be cycled and house beneficial bacteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#!CrunchBang Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Probably want the temp set at 26-27 degrees which is a good temperature point for most tropicals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 A 170L tank should have cycled at 8 weeks. A higher temperature would cause the cycling to occur a little faster, that's all. The fact you had an algal bloom suggests to me you did have a nitrate surge as algae need nitrates, and your plants are also surviving, and they also use nitrates. I suspect your tank is already nearly cycled. I would do a 90% water change, and see what happens to the ammonia levels. If you can drop the ammonia to 0 with water changes, perhaps add a fish or two and monitor the parameters after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 A 170L tank should have cycled at 8 weeks. A higher temperature would cause the cycling to occur a little faster, that's all. The fact you had an algal bloom suggests to me you did have a nitrate surge as algae need nitrates, and your plants are also surviving, and they also use nitrates. That's what I thought too. The algal bloom was probably caused by too much nitrate, which suggests that the bacteria is there. The tank might already have been cycled but maybe with a recent addition of too much food, it could be going through an ammonia spike and mini-cycle. That's my guess anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepsnana Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hey Pol, how are the levels now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polwarth Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I have been change 20% of the water on a daily basis and I have got the ammonia level down to .50 ppm so I am hoping that I have fixed the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 You could do a 90% water change since the bacteria you are growing are not free floating but in your filter media and on stones etc. There's no need to do small water changes unless you have fish in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I have been change 20% of the water on a daily basis and I have got the ammonia level down to .50 ppm so I am hoping that I have fixed the problem. Sounds good. Do you have nitrite readings now PS id ignore the statement above. Id keep your water changes small for now until your bacteria are fully established. If your nitrite levels are not too high then you can probable leave it to its own devises. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 It sounds like you are on the right track. There isn't an exact recipe for success. There are so many biological processes going on that there are a myriad of reasons why you might be seeing an ammonia spike. One likely thing that happened is that you had cycled the tank but the bacteria load was not all that high so it may have died off and then gone through another ammonia spike. Or it could have been contaminated by a pathogenic bacteria, or your test kit may not be all that accurate. All are equally possible and it is very hard to know for sure what was causing the problem. If it were me, I would get a big clump of mature filter media from an experienced fish keeper in your area. You would be amazed at how much that can solve. Once you get it, put it in your filter as soon as possible, then feed it by adding some fish (the number of fish depends on how much media you get and how many fish were in the tank that the media was taken from). Once the fish are added, feed them lightly and only just once a day and do a 25% water change every couple of days with dechlorinated water. After a week or so, leave the tank for a few days and test it again to check ammonia levels. I would bet that you don't have any at that point! :thup: Btw, I see you are relatively local so you are welcome to have some of my mature filter media if you want! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polwarth Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Down to .25ppm after 90% change in water, Iwill let it sit for a day and retest, but i suspect another water change may fix it completely Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 That's curious ... if you started with 0.5 ppm, and did a 90% water change, it should have dropped to 0.05 ppm. Could there be something like some decaying thing in your tank raising the ammonia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodKing Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 This may not apply but I find my API test kit gives a 0.25 at the lowest. I have tried lots of different things to see if I can it lower but it always comes out at 0.25. Have had my Mrs check my methods and her scientist brain/training says I'm doing it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 My API test kit goes down to 0. And it does read 0 on bottled water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 For indicator solutions there is a range of accuracy. It may be that these particular indicator chemicals (eg, methyl orange) are not accurate at lower concentrations. Using a pragmatic approach, small concentration probably have minimal effect in aquatic systems anyway. What we really want to know is when the ammonia gets up to toxic concentrations and I suspect that the indicator is designed to be most accurate at that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodKing Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Thought it might be something like that. I figured as long as the readings are consistent and the same method is used every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 My intank seachem alert has the following: <0.02, .05, 0.2 and 0.5 ppm. I have never seen it budge from the lowest reading so hope it actually works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 This may not apply but I find my API test kit gives a 0.25 at the lowest. I have tried lots of different things to see if I can it lower but it always comes out at 0.25. Have had my Mrs check my methods and her scientist brain/training says I'm doing it right. Some additives like stress zyme can give those small false readings too i have found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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