GrahamC Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I would guess that urine is much the same whether it comes from a fish or a mammal ... don't want to use your own, then try the dog's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I would guess that urine is much the same whether it comes from a fish or a mammal ... don't want to use your own, then try the dog's 1. Lift dog above fish tank 2. Squeze dog untill dry 3. ???? 4. Profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#!CrunchBang Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I would guess that urine is much the same whether it comes from a fish or a mammal ... don't want to use your own, then try the dog's NO!! Definitely not the same. fish excrete ammonia, mammals and birds excrete either urea or uric acid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 correct CRUNCHBANG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 You can use clear ammonia to avoid surfactants if that is your worry. Hard to come by its around. I found some at our Binn Inn. Heres some reading from Dr Tim http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/fishless/fishless.html also http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/fishless_cycle.php and http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/fishless_cycle.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 NO!! Definitely not the same. fish excrete ammonia, mammals and birds excrete either urea or uric acid In water, the amine groups undergo slow displacement by water molecules, producing ammonia and carbonate anionSame resault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 So, if you never did any testing how did you know when the system was stable? AFAIK, the point of a fishless cycle ( apart from sparing the fish any trauma ) is to create a large population of bacteria so that it can handle all of your fish at once ie. no need to add them slowly. The method claims to induce much larger populations than that achieved using dead shrimp or a sacrificial fish. And if you have an existing tank with live filter material then you can even bypass most of these steps by using that in your new tank. Exactly! Aaand ammonia is only $3 a bottle and i would need probably 10 danios to cycle my tank which at my LFS cost $3.90 each.. with the risk of dying and losing that money if you do it "the good old way". This fishless cycle will probably only cost me 50 cents (not including heating and filtration of course) ETTO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Fish produce urea through the gills as well. This is why that little fish in the Amazon is such a scary little thing to us males as it is following traces of urea and goes where it shouldn't because it thinks it has found the gills of a fish and is about to lock on and get a bit of blood. Makes me cringe just thinking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sick...... but true. Urine is sterile until it reaches the urethra where the epithelial cells lining the urethra are colonized by facultatively anaerobic Gram negative rods and cocci.[4] Subsequent to elimination from the body, urine can acquire strong odors due to bacterial action,[citation needed] and in particular the release of asphyxiating ammonia from the breakdown of urea - From wikipedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 As that wise fella said. There is only two ways to do things--your way and my way. There is no right way, best way or wrong way. Do what works for you. How much ammonia is produced by 10 danios? They know, do you? Not sick, just a fact. Urine can contain some small viruses as well. There was an importer on this site who said he had used urine to do a fishless cycle prior to importing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is why that little fish in the Amazon is such a scary little thing to us males as it is folowing traces of urea and goes where it shouldn't because it thinks it has found the gills of a fish and is about to lock on and get a bit of blood. Makes me cringe just thinking about it. Is that the Bobbitt fish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 That would be Bobbitus missesii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 1. Lift dog above fish tank 2. Squeze dog untill dry 3. ???? 4. Profit My method would be to prepare a background for the tank, not of rocks, but of painted lamp posts. Nature would then take its course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 How much ammonia is produced by 10 danios? They know, do you? I guess just like the ability to cycle with out testing it comes from peoples experience. Cycling to 4ppm can handle a huge bio load. ie no ammonia, nitrite spikes after fish added. A lot of people y cycle only cycle using 2ppm, big bio loads and no spikes. I guess if we tested water daily when using fish to cycle you would see how much was produced. I have seen some experiments somewhere with this info based on inch of fish per gallon or something like that. :-?. There are certainly multiple ways of doing things each with their pros and cons. Either way they arnt as complicated as we can make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Swelter'd venom sleeping got, Boil thou first i' the charmed pot! Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble. Fillet of a fenny snake, In the caldron boil and bake; Eye of newt, and toe of frog, Wool of bat, and tongue of dog, Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting, Lizard's leg, and owlet's wing,— For a charm of powerful trouble, Like a hell-broth boil and bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Swelter'd venom sleeping got, Who has been drinking the Potteraid :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Missed this line maw and gulf Of the ravin'd salt-sea shark; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Missed this line :rotf: oh i forgot the marine aquarium bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Well my ammonia has stopped going down, and nitrites are still off the chart. Is it possible the very high nitrite levels has killed the ammonia>nitrite bacteria??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Nope. You just need to wait for the nitrite consuming bacteria to form and then the nitrites will fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 As stated--it is another bacteria that needs to convert the nitrite to nitrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 What day are you up to now? What is your ammonia reading? What temperature is your water? What is your Ph? Do you have reasonable aeration, surface agitation? These are some variants that can stall, help ammonia conversion. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted January 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hey, I'm up to day 13 and ammonia has been at 1ppm for the past 6 days with nitrite off the charts. have not added any ammonia for the past few days but it just won't drop to zero, temp has been at 29'C. Nitrate sitting at 5ppm. Is it stalled or am i just being impatient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstar99 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 ok. You dont need to keep adding the ammonia if there is already ammonia in there. Your nitrite will be off the chart for probably at least 2 weeks after you get your ammonia to zero. So theres not really any point testing untill the ammonia is down. Try and keep your Ph around or above 7 if poss. Any lower than 6 and it can slow the bacteria down a little. Give it a few more days. It (the ammonia) usually seems to be doing nothing then drops quite fast down to .25 then zero. once its at zero you can feed the tank back up to 2ppm every couple of days till your nitrite is down. The nitrite takes ages. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted January 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Thanks Hampstar99. It's so hard being patient, especially when the boyf keeps asking "when are you going to put fish in? its so boring! Hurry up!" Lol hes like a child Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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