aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 So as you know I treated my tank with Wunder Tonic on Saturday. Just read online that you shouldn't use Malachite Green if your PH is low as it will be more toxic. Just went to check on my fish this morning and found 3 dead guppies, one guppy that is dying and my fantail goldfish is also dying. It's covered in white stuff like fungus.... yesterday there was NOTHING at all on the goldfish. My tank is 64 litres and I only added 3 drops/3ml to the water. And I removed the carbon cartridges first. So I have 2 guppies left that are ok, although one looks like it's tail is rotting away. And the white cloud mountain minnows are all fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I forgot to add that I have done an 80% water change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 It sounds like you have columnaris, also called sadleback. Treat with trisulpha or furan2 if you don't want to pay for a visit to the vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaLife Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I do use malachite green with formalin to treat parasite for my discus which is kept at 6.8ph. Both are strong medication. Be aware some medi when mixed is toxic, an example, don't add salt if treating with formalin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Nah I did the water change and since then ALL the white stuff has come off. It looked like skin peeling off. I think it must be the slime coat. Not sure why it's come off... maybe because of the Wunder Tonic or the fact that my PH is only 6.0. But the goldfish still has blood streaked fins and it's tail seems to be rotting away and it has blood coloring by its mouth and on it's body in a few places..... I put Ammo-Lock and Stress Coat and Stress Zyme in the water I added. All that has literally happened overnight The one sick guppy and the goldfish seem to be having swimming issues as they keep floating onto their sides or momentarily straight up or down or upside down. The goldfish has spent most of the day sitting on the bottom of the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Sorry that you are having a hard time of it. Try not to be too disheartened, just about all of us could share a story about how things didn't exactly go to plan and we lost fish in the process. We hope it won't happen, but sometimes it is just a part of learning how to do it right - and sometimes it is just bad luck. :dunno: The basic rule of fishkeeping is to figure out how to keep good water quality. If you do that, the fish will take care of themselves (if you do not introduce a diseased fish to the group). The other rule is to avoid adding anything if you don't have to. I think most people will agree that it is hard to treat fish when they are unwell, and it is often not successful. As with all medications, there are risks that it can do more harm than good. You just hope that it kills the nasty disease but not the fish as well! Sometimes the things we add are not ideal and can do more harm than good so it is best to aim for solving the root of the problem (clean water) so you aren't chasing your tail trying to treat the diseases as the crop up! :nilly: It might be that you need to wait this one out. Keep the water nice and clean, don't overfeed, don't add anything unnecessary and once there is a good healthy group of fish left, you can go from there. We are always happy to give advice based on our own experiences if you need help along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Thanks Jennifer The water is definitely clean in regards to how often I do water changes and clean the tank. It's so pristine clear! But the water quality eg ammonia levels are not good. So I'm doing exactly what you said.. .waiting it out. I'm definitely not getting any more fish until I get the water quality perfect and we are past the illnesses. I really don't think the fantail and other guppy are going to survive though... if they die I'll be left with just two guppies and 5 minnows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 64L is too small for a fantail goldfish anyway. When a fish is coping with poor water quality, it increases production of the slime coat in an effort to protect itself from the toxins. As it builds up, it sloughs off the fish causing that peeling effect. As said, stop adding chemicals (except the water ager or chlorine remover if it is needed in your area), keep up the water changes and all will settle. You will not get an instant fix as it takes some time for the surviving fish to recover and they will be susceptible to other diseases etc due to their poor health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Yeah I know Caryl... I mentioned in an earlier post/topic that it was only supposed to be in there temporarily and it's only 6-7cm long. When the guppies got ich I didn't want to move the fantail until I had finished treating the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 The water is definitely clean in regards to how often I do water changes and clean the tank. It's so pristine clear! But the water quality eg ammonia levels are not good. Ammonia shows that the tank isn,t cycled yet. Maybe the tank is too clean?? How often do you clean the filter? It should only be cleaned when there is a significant loss of water flow and even then only gently so as not to kill off any beneficial bacteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Up until today, I had never cleaned my filter. I clean the filter sponge about once a month. But not the actual filter. Today I emptied the water from the filter and put the carbon cartridges back in and cleaned the filter sponge. I didn't clean the cartridges or the inside of the filter though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I hope it all come right for you. You say you are cleaning the tank regularly, how often and exactly what are you doing? Too much cleaning is not good for the microbes, thus not good for the water quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Are there any ceramic thingies in the filter or is it just the sponge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I gravel vacuum and siphon out about 25-30% water once a week. I only clean the ornaments and filter sponge about once a month, once every two months ... as it's needed. I clean the sides of the tank about once a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 The sponge is on the thing that goes into the water that sucks the water into it and then it goes up the pipe into the filter. If you know what I mean... The filter doesn't have ceramics/noodles or anything like that. It's just a cartridge one. I use 2 carbon cartridges and 2 bioclear ones... it's a Marina S20 slim filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 My thinking is that the only significant place for the bacteria to colonise is the sponge and the gravel so every time you clean the sponge and vac the gravel you are disturbing those colonies and therefore the tank is never given a chance to mature. Gravel vac,ing isn't too important if you don't over feed. I haven't done one for months. IMO you can get rid of the cartridges and one third fill the filter with filter sponge or filter wool and two thirds with ceramic noodles. Clean the sponge when you have to but leave the ceramic noodles alone, maybe a rinse in tank water if necessary. I have filters that haven't been disturbed in months and I still have clear water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 A PH of 6 is not helping especially for the goldfish in such a small tank. Goldfish prefer PH7.6 Guppies 7.3 WCMM 6-8. I suspect the water is too soft and acidic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I'm thinking the same as MarkLB, that you are cleaning all the bacteria out. Try not cleaning the sponge for a few weeks (and the substrate) and see if the ammonia levels come down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 My thinking is that the only significant place for the bacteria to colonise is the sponge and the gravel so every time you clean the sponge and vac the gravel you are disturbing those colonies and therefore the tank is never given a chance to mature. Gravel vac,ing isn't too important if you don't over feed. I haven't done one for months. IMO you can get rid of the cartridges and one third fill the filter with filter sponge or filter wool and two thirds with ceramic noodles. Clean the sponge when you have to but leave the ceramic noodles alone, maybe a rinse in tank water if necessary. I have filters that haven't been disturbed in months and I still have clear water. Ah ok Mark thank you very much. All I care about is that the water is clear so I have a good view of the fishies... don't like the idea of having water that's dirty. Obviously I'm doing too much cleaning :lol: So I will cut down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 A PH of 6 is not helping especially for the goldfish in such a small tank. Goldfish prefer PH7.6 Guppies 7.3 WCMM 6-8. I suspect the water is too soft and acidic. I only found out on Saturday that the PH was only 6.0. Last time I checked the PH it was 7.6 or over. Not sure why it went down so much. The guy at the LFS said I could use a product he showed me but he said because the water hardness is not at the right level, that the PH can go up and just go back down again in the space of one day. I will have to go back to the LFS on Saturday and see if I can get PH up instead. I'm doing water changes of about 30% daily at the moment. Because my ammonia level was between .5-1ppm and because of the PH being so low. Is that good? Apparently the nitrite test was 0 and the nitrates was also 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 The water changes are the best thing you can do. You could reduce them to every second day in a weeks time and keep reducing them over the next couple of weeks after that until you're back to once a week, say in 4/5 weeks time. Forget about the pH for now, it will slowly become closer to the tap water because of all the water changes. Once you start down the road of pH up and down you'll forever be chasing it. When the tank is mature the pH should stabilise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Nah I did the water change and since then ALL the white stuff has come off. It looked like skin peeling off. I think it must be the slime coat. Not sure why it's come off... maybe because of the Wunder Tonic or the fact that my PH is only 6.0. But the goldfish still has blood streaked fins and it's tail seems to be rotting away and it has blood coloring by its mouth and on it's body in a few places..... I put Ammo-Lock and Stress Coat and Stress Zyme in the water I added. All that has literally happened overnight The one sick guppy and the goldfish seem to be having swimming issues as they keep floating onto their sides or momentarily straight up or down or upside down. The goldfish has spent most of the day sitting on the bottom of the tank. be aware that because you have used ammo lock your testing for ammonia wont be accurate as ammo lock changes ammonia to ammonium which will still show as having ammonia in the tank when you use a test kit. better off using prime as that will get rid off ammoia nitrite and nitrate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Good point, I'd missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 The water changes are the best thing you can do. You could reduce them to every second day in a weeks time and keep reducing them over the next couple of weeks after that until you're back to once a week, say in 4/5 weeks time. Forget about the pH for now, it will slowly become closer to the tap water because of all the water changes. Once you start down the road of pH up and down you'll forever be chasing it. When the tank is mature the pH should stabilise. Yeah I have noticed the other guppy and the goldfish are recovering... the blood streaks and blotches on the goldfishes body are slowly fading and it's swimming around. I think they both had swimbladder, though the guppy is fine now.. the goldfish is still going straight upwards sometimes... yesterday it was flipping and going on it's side and up and down. It just didn't seem to be able to float normally. I added salt yesterday when I did the water change and also this morning when I did a water change. Do you think that's ok? Most of the fish still have fin/tail rot. But the ich seems to be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquariumbeginner32 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 be aware that because you have used ammo lock your testing for ammonia wont be accurate as ammo lock changes ammonia to ammonium which will still show as having ammonia in the tank when you use a test kit. better off using prime as that will get rid off ammoia nitrite and nitrate The guy from the LFS told me to use Ammo-Lock. :roll: But I do have Stress Zyme Plus which says it gets rid of Ammonia and Nitrite. My nitrate and nitrite levels were tested on Saturday and there was no nitrite or nitrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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