livingart Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 may not have been the marmite though i have used it on birds a lot when they seem to be on their last legs read quite a few years ago vit b goes first from a bird when it was under stress and shows as paralysis in limbs and beak marmites vitb , B12 , protien, amino acid, with warm water i feel gives the system a kick start lot of sodium in it though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Marmite is good for arthritis too. Gave a friend's dog a new lease on life! Gave Grant about 6 months :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 she was looking pretty grim until i got some fluid into her. I havent managed to get any solids into her. If laying they often go off food for a few days so not worried about that really. Ive been making up fresh salads, lots of insects, 1/4 cup water (enough to get traction in blender), tiny bit marmite. blend then drain juice. Syringe feed, seems to have picked her up. Who knows maybe she would of pulled through anyway. I could of got onto it sooner, looking back at photos she was showing signs atleast two weeks prior. Breeding tipped her over the edge i think. :dunno: Upto 6 eggs now, one looks like a dud, rest ok. Colour not bad on body either this afternoon gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezza D Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 So glad to hear that she seems to be doing better and is now laying ID! Awesome news. :happy1: Good luck with the eggs.. can't wait to see pics of baby BDs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 13 eggs now, more coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perpin Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Wow its taking a long time for her to lay her eggs. Is that normally how long it takes beardies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 maybe due to the stress she was under i think ID is just happy :happy1: she is laying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perpin Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Absolutely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 not normal at all. she hasnt even bothered digging :roll: been laying eggs down by the water bowl even though has nice damp sand down the other end of tank. shes going through the pushing motions still, will leave her to it or until she stops laying. almost like she laid through the night, turned light off at midnight and thought that may stop progress but there was 4 more eggs in tank this morning at 7am. not fussed about the eggs, just hoping she will drop them all and start to eat again, will be very happy to have her alive at the end of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 something i noticed earlier is the liver is a different colour in 2 animals at a similar stage of egg formation is the current animal a sister to this one? if so what was their diet while being raised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 yep this the sister of the one i did an autopsy on last year. mealworms, crickets, locusts, roaches and slaters, moths etc as a treat. in the last year she would have had mealworms only 2/3times. (i went abit anti on them after last years one passed) easterns seem to love the veges, eat alot more than my inlands. damage may of been done when younger. :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 p.s i did wonder if that other one that has been autopsied has been frozen prior. even the fats pads look different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 have seen young beardies in the past fed a lot of animal meat to get them to grow quicker many of these had shortened lives and other issues by the liquidity of the gut pic freezing maybe a possibility fresh is best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 She's been growing realtively slow but consistant I thought. She's 47cm, not huge for a 3y/o but not a bad size to breed. In saying that I did notice a bit of a growth spurt in past few months, tail almost appears to be getting slight kinks, sort of looks dehydrated......has grown. Lack of calcium to assist eggs and growth maybe.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 i would run with lack of calcium coupled with a temp drop overloading the system not an expert though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 normally i try introduce male, let them do the deed then separate. = minimal stress above wasnt yielding any success, left male with her for a good 2weeks. do wonder if the male just gave her too much attention. few things to try out different next time. even just putting her on some sand a few weeks back may of helped. just put my inland on sand for the first the time, she dug some nice caves instantly and i didnt even think she had eggs just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 the eggs smell like mice? :-? just separated the good loooking eggs from the bad, see if that changes anything. have definitely noticed this smell in the past, maybe from the sisters eggs last year.... only one egg dropped today, doesnt look any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 that may be from the toxins in her system from the shut down were the dud eggs the first laid and the good the last?, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 been a mixed bag. first egg looks the best. last one laid (today) probably next best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 may be a result of Hepatic Lipidosis or a problem in some of the follicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 from that link i posted . Owners who are attempting to breed their dragons may present a lizard because she has laid a clutch of eggs, but still appears to have retained some eggs. Examples of managing this condition range from basic supportive care to aggressive calcium supplementation and fluid therapy to hormonal management using oxytocin or prostaglandins to Caesarean section or ovariohysterectomy (ovariosalpingectomy). It is important to differentiate between pre-ovulatory egg stasis and post- ovulatory egg stasis when lizards are presented because treatment for the two syndromes may differ. Concurrent egg yolk peritonitis can accompany some of these cases as well. Some female bearded dragons may have persistent necrotic ovarian follicles on their ovaries, which may result in coelomic disease and require surgical intervention. Anorexia, Hepatic Lipidosis, and Brumation A fatty liver-like syndrome occurs in adult bearded dragons commonly. Typically, these dragons are obese with large abdominal fat pads. Clinical signs are usually anorexia and depression. Adult bearded dragons need approximately 20% of their diet as fat but many captive diets that utilize a large portion of insects are closer to 40% fat. Hepatic lipidosis may result. Blood work is often unremarkable except sometimes AST is elevated and sometimes hyperglycemia is documented. Radiographs and ultrasound may reveal an enlarged liver and possibly ascites. Endoscopic liver biopsy or exploratory celiotomy and iver biopsy will confirm the diagnosis. Hepatic lipidosis in females during egg production is not pathologic. Treatment involves supportive care including fluid therapy, broad-spectrum antibiotics, lactulose, and assisted feeding. Daily warm water soaks are also beneficial to help with hydration. Clients may need to continue this support at home for 3–4 weeks before the dragon may begin to accept food on its own. Unfortunately, many of these dragons are presented late in the disease cycle and a diagnosis is made at necropsy. Etiology and techniques for prevention are unknown, but clients should be warned not to over-condition bearded dragons. Bearded dragons may also refuse food as they start to brumate, or “hibernate” (a state of torpor induced by prolonged spells of low temperatures)—this should not be mistaken for a pathological condition. Low ambient temperatures due to husbandry problems or seasonal changes in the climate have been incriminated as potential causes. Increasing the ambient temperature and eliminating drafts often corrects the problem. If these corrective measures fail to improve the dragon’s appetite, further investigation is warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Concurrent egg yolk peritonitis seems to fit. good eggs bad eggs (one looks ok, maye just dehydrated). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 if its got perotonitis you better get it to vet fast and get some sort of antibiotics into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 in birds there are 3 different types of egg yolk peritonitis, the one that may pertain to this is where the egg yolk sometimes become infected with bacterial growth while it is still inside the bird or Infection may occur while the yolk is moving down the egg tract another may be the eggs may have been contaminated from the liver, fatty liver syndrome, the fat pads in her sister may be an indication of this how is her mood now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 just checked and she laid an egg infront of my eyes, i think we had a moment :lol: otherwise, been pretty much just sitting, doing a pushing motion every now and again. glad she just dropped another as was starting to worry. little bit of yoke/urate stuff prior to this egg. similar to the yellow thing i smeared earlier on. thats 15 egg total i think. sister laid 18 and i didnt even pic up she had eggs/was fat. so picking 22-24 in this girl, hopefully no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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