THE INDUSTRY BEHIND THE HOBBY.

[livingart]

The taxpayer pays for many peoples hobbies, look at all the funding for arts and amateur sports. My rates go towards maintaining sports fields I'll never use.....

yes the taxpayer funds many sports, but they don't fund the industry behind them

[alanmin4304]

I was serious about breeding fish. Many years ago I used to breed and sell 50000 tropical fish a year. To the guy that owned and operated the facility above actually. There is a guy down here establishing a large breeding facility and he has for many yeers bred and sold many varieties of tropical fish at wholesale prices and in wholesale numbers. I had about 60 tanks and he has over 350. As quarantine costs go up (particularly on high risk fish) it will be more profitable to breed them. We have to make sure we can produce them at a good quality and cost. There will always be fish that need to be imported but I can see the prices of them going up as well particularly if importers no longer bring in the bread and butter lines because they are breeding them here.

[David R]

Man, talk about banging my head on a brick wall, you two sure are champions of the hobby. :roll:

[livingart]

you are correct David, the hobby and fellow hobbyists are the most important thing

business and industry will ebb and flow through trends in market forces and other influences

and there will always be a market where people are prepared to spend money

MAF are doing what they consider necessary to prevent any future problems that may arise from imports

the past has proved the vulnerability of our native flora and fauna, they don't need more possible threats coming in

good to be able to have these discussions on here as there are always 2 sides to a story

[David R]

you are correct David, the hobby and fellow hobbyists are the most important thing

business and industry will ebb and flow through trends in market forces and other influences

and there will always be a market where people are prepared to spend money

MAF are doing what they consider necessary to prevent any future problems that may arise from imports

the past has proved the vulnerability of our native flora and fauna, they don't need more possible threats coming in

good to be able to have these discussions on here as there are always 2 sides to a story

Yes that is all correct, but not really to the point of this thread, which was supposed to be about the draught of the NEW IHS. No one is recommending we reduce the quarantine period or the current testing that is carried out, you'd have to be living in lala land to even think that it could happen. The point is that despite the current system working well MAF are lumbering more costs and more stringent conditions onto importers. If anyone who has an interest in keeping tropical fish, fresh or marine, doesn't have an objection to that then they need their head checked as it can only be bad for our hobby.

I'm not even sure if there is a point to all of Alans ramblings, but its derailing this thread from its original purpose of discussing the proposed changes to the IHS. If he wants to support MAF with these changes then this thread [and this forum] isn't the place to do it, IMO. We really don't need Captain Obvious pointing out "the realities" of fishkeeping as we are all well aware of them and they are barely relevant to the topic at hand.

[alanmin4304]

As LA said industries ebb and flow. I used to breed 8 pairs of angels all the time but there is no way the NZ market would take them now. There are many tetras that could be bred and sold in large numbers at the moment and lots of other fish as well. You can speculate as to why Maf have these requirements but the reality is there and they are likely to stay or get worse. I am not knocking importing (I have done it) I am pointing out that it is likely that restrictions will get tighter, costs will rise and more fish will be bred locally. Things will change but the hobby will go on.

[alanmin4304]

I may be a bit thick but my understanding is that the IHS are the same as they have been in terms of the criterier to be met. This post was about the industry behind the hobby, the other post is about adding other fish to the approved fish list.

[David R]

You can speculate as to why Maf have these requirements but the reality is there and they are likely to stay or get worse. I am not knocking importing (I have done it) I am pointing out that it is likely that restrictions will get tighter, costs will rise and more fish will be bred locally.

Mainly because we have people like you derailing this thread posting dribble about how they used to breed a million fish 50 years ago instead if discussing what we can do to oppose the tightening of restrictions and increasing of costs.

:roll:

Reef is trying to raise awareness of proposed changes, if you're happy to bend over and take it from MAF the good on you, but how about you leave those of us that want to fight it to do so...

[livingart]

FNZAS we need a new forum for this, Called , THE INDUSTRY BEHIND THE HOBBY.

Need to discuss the issues.

Searching the net shows its happening all over the world.

[reef]

This is not new. Maf have been testing fish for a long time and charging for it almost as long. It may not suit some people to be told this but these things have been going on in the south Island for a very long time and importers here have been asking for a level playing field---perhaps it is coming.

alanmin4304 what a load of rubbish. you are still living in the past when you used to import fish in the 1900s.

Just like the claim you made that Goldfish will never be imported, obviously out of touch what goes on in the industry since the 1900s.

As you are the expert of nothing go and add fish to the IHS and do something useful, You are all talk and no action.

[livingart]

Mainly because we have people like you derailing this thread posting dribble about how they used to breed a million fish 50 years ago instead if discussing what we can do to oppose the tightening of restrictions and increasing of costs.

:roll:

Reef is trying to raise awareness of proposed changes, if you're happy to bend over and take it from MAF the good on you, but how about you leave those of us that want to fight it to do so...

we are supposed to be discussing the issues

reef raised the issue as it affects him directly as an importer and thi will have to flow on to the hobbyist as i imagine he will have trouble absorbing the costs

alan has merely pointed out his point of view surrounding the issues from his experience in the field

there is no need to post in such a way to denigrate his opinion

[alanmin4304]

I admit that I am thick and living in the past and that you guys are so clever so could you please point out to this retard how you propse to reduce Reef's compliance costs so he can make more money.

[reef]

please point out to this retard how you propse to reduce Reef's compliance costs so he can make more money.

Again , baseless comments. so how do you know i make money. have you any clue what it cost these days to actually import.

The fact that every year there is less importers will give you a clue.

[David R]

I admit that I am thick ... please point out to this retard how you propse to reduce Reef's compliance costs so he can make more money.

You said it, not me. I thought the difference between REDUCE and NOT INCREASE was fairly obvious, not to you I guess....

[livingart]

will these increased costs make your business less viable and stop you importing fish reef?

[Insect Direct]

if only the hobby was behind the industry eh.

[alanmin4304]

There is nothing preventing anyone from importing if they wish to meet the criteria and obey the rules.

[livingart]

if only the hobby was behind the industry eh.

so we should marry up profit making and non profit then?

[reef]

will these increased costs make your business less viable and stop you importing fish reef?

Cost is only part of the problem its the stringent procedures that add fair amount of time/cost , all the procedures add no value.

Importing small amounts is not viable as a business at all.

[Insect Direct]

so we should marry up profit making and non profit then?

marriage would be over the top

just saying if the hobby backed the importers, shops etc as much as possible, she would probably work out better for all. maybe im wrong.

[alanmin4304]

Since I am still in the past could you please explain what the proposed added costs are?

[livingart]

Cost is only part of the problem its the stringent procedures that add fair amount of time/cost , all the procedures add no value.

Importing small amounts is not viable as a business at all.

sitting on the outside looking in it is hard to make an evaluation

outlining how these procedures are adding cost may give a better understanding of the problems you face on the coal face

as an industry the live stock is necessary to be able to sell the hardware

is their more profit through less costs involved in importing the hardware

[Rabbit]

just saying if the hobby backed the importers, shops etc as much as possible, she would probably work out better for all. maybe im wrong.

Well said.

[David R]

just saying if the hobby backed the importers, shops etc as much as possible, she would probably work out better for all. maybe im wrong.

Thats what [i think] this thread was supposed to be about, the hobby getting behind the importers and opposing MAF increasing the restrictions and costs associated with importing fish....

We need to support those in the industry who support the hobby, rather than those who offer the cheapest junk at the lowest price. Penny pinching in such a small market as NZ will ultimately lead to the death of the hobby...

[alanmin4304]

Since no one seems prepared to answer my perfectly reasonable question about "what are the proposed added costs" I will just have to remain igrant.